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Wednesday, February 26, 2014

Good or Bad

Okay, let's cut to the chase. This graphic has been making the rounds lately.

[caption id="attachment_1774" align="aligncenter" width="1856"]2014-02-15-CoalitionMap 2014-02-15-CoalitionMap[/caption]

Do you think EVE Online would be better to play or worse to play if the graphic looked like this eventually?

[caption id="attachment_1777" align="aligncenter" width="1856"]Blue Doughnut Map Blue Doughnut Map[/caption]

Thoughts?

24 comments:

  1. My thought is that if the game evolves in that direction, I might just ask if you could use a copilot or a gunner on that Freelancer of yours.

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  2. The second image is the natural evolution of the game, if CCP does not step in and wipe out the mechanics that have allowed Eve to reach the point it has. goons have played the meta-game and the actual game better than anyone else ever has before. Bravo to them for that. At this point, the only thing stopping goons from eventually absorbing all of sov null is CCP ending it, or goons themselves reining themselves in, likely because CCP whispered a friendly word in the goon leadership's collective ear, saying "stop your advance, or we will."

    If we buy into the propaganda spewed by the cartels about how Eve is all about blowing up each other's ships, then an all blue sov null sec is really bad for CCP's business. And they will have to change that, if they want to maintain their sub base. Unless you are part of the cartel leadership RMT'ing their utility bills or house payments, you can only make so much ISK and eventually get bored because there is nothing left to shoot.

    Oh, incidentally, goons announced on their Pravda site today that they want all their members into Titans, or failing that, supercarriers. If that is not a sign of having way too much ISK, and trying to create artificial goals to keep your playerbase engaged, because they are getting bored, nothing is.

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  3. I think Dinsdale is right - the blue donut is the natural progression given the current rules of the Null Sec game. While I am impressed by the efforts of those players, I don't think it is a good thing for the game long term.

    I think however artificial fight clubs where lots of people have a system or four here and there won't be any better. There needs to be the scope for empire building and almost total domination. I think the problem lies in the fact it is impossible (it would seem) for new groups to develop and join this level of game play. They will either get swallowed up or curb-stomped by those groups already there.

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  4. I would say we are already half way there to your second image. PL are in a NIP with CFC & allies via the BOTLRD Accords. PL also seem to be "absorbing" quite a bit of N3 space too. If N3 isn't completely removed from sov null, I suspect we'll see them kept in check from time to time by the CFC, just so they don't pose a significant threat to that big blue doughnut/rental ISK flow.

    I'm amazed we've not heard anything from CCP regarding the state of sov null. Do they really think it is working as intended and that they are completely happy with the current situation? CCP Fozzie's R64 redistribution, T2 production and alchemy rebalancing (Odyssey expansion, see dev blog dated 26.04.2013) appears to have been sidestepped through well crafted meta. The follow up introduction of siphons ("more opportunities for active gameplay that can be disrupted by small groups of pilots" LOL) was nerfed to the point of being almost useless, after a goon forum QQ campaign, even before they made it onto TQ.

    At this point in time, if CCP really want to shake up the game in sov null and make it remotely interesting for smaller entities, then they are going to have to hit it with a multiple whammy (for example, force projection changes + exponential sov holding costs + active moon mineral collection). Honestly though, I don't think CCP's game mechanics-fu is up to the task. All I can say is thank goodness I live in NPC null and I'd probably head to WH space if the gameplay actually dies in null as a whole or even look to something better to spend my subscription and free time on.

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  5. Goons are essentially a tick on the body of New Eden. Their style of play, whereby the only way to enjoy the game is at another player's expense is now wide spread. It is exemplified by the infamous "not out the ruin the game, just your game". Thus a tick feeds at the expense of its host. Over feed of course, and the suffering host may take action on the parasite or the host maybe reduced in the ability to supply the parasite. In worst, should the host die... well - this is a unique game. I am betting there are multiple developers out there, relieved that Eve is a magnet for grief players. Just how much self-restraint can the goon-tick maintain?

    CCP has shown that they will intervene against overly successful suicide ganking in hi-sec. (gankers are always ready to blame anybody else but themselves for the state of nerfdom - you are victims of your own success, take ownership for your actions; it will be less painful in the long run). But hi-sec gankers do not have unity or effective lobby elements - it will remain to be seen just how far can the tick feed, while the rest of the body ails.

    Indeed allow me to point to Serenity - where suicide ganking and grief style is non-existent. The Chinese are able to function perfectly fine without Goons. We can do without the Goons, but they can not do without us.

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  6. I guess EVE is dying again. Goons are murdering it again. Anyone who's doing anything other than blue donuting is having no fun at any time whatsoever because we're all living in the shadow of the Goon menace.

    Any minute now, all the people that have made a career of complaining about the impending death of EVE are going to un-sub and move on.

    Any minute now.

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  7. Stainwagon aren't members of the CFC. Congrats on perpetuating a really bad piece of NCdot propaganda.

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  8. Ooooo, time to feed the troll. I'm not perpetuating anything. I didn't make the graphic. I'm just soliciting everyone's thoughts about what everyone's already whispering in the dark. Up until now the comments have been insightful. Have you anything insightful to add nickers man? I know you do. Come on, spill it.

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  9. I guess both pictures depend on the Mittani keeping the CFC together. Once you really reach the big blue donut stage, everyone has to agree to have all that they have at that time. There will be no more expansion for them. Change will depend on ostracizing certain member of the group to keep the rest on guard and to give them something to do. The Mittani may even end up with a literal Praetorian guard situation on his hands, as the inner core that runs the day-to-day operations of the alliance realize that they have all the power. One missed Sov payment while the boss is in mid-flight to Fanfest and all hell could break loose.

    I mean, the core of the Goons came from the Something Awful forums. Maybe those guys from the Something Awful days are just old now. They're content to share porn links during 10% TiDi. No more tricks up their sleeves but spais and blobs and the rantings of some guy that makes thousands of dollars in ad revenue each month off of their free work. At least he's generous with his ship replacement policy, right.

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  10. LOL only you have talked about "EVE is dying". How ironic!

    I suspect that if the second picture comes to pass (through a combination of standings/NIP/NAP) then most null peeps will be saying EVE is boring & will go do something else more entertaining.

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  11. Not that much different from the situation right now with those botlrd/otec accords where they are partially blue due to NIP and the like. Completely blue null sov is just as bad for the goons themselves, is unstable and will collapse to infighting.

    Or perhaps then the universe turn into a permawar between blue null (and their renter empire) vs high and low sec making the world even more interesting.

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  12. Blaming CFC for the increasing size of coalitions doesn't make sense. Every time CCP increases the amount of pilots a node can handle, the size of the coalition required to reliably supply a large enough fleet to win that size battle goes up. The CFC 'won' the war, but at the time, people didn't know who would win, between the CFC and N3/PL. If N3/PL won, what would the difference be? They're all massive coalitions with renters.

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  13. Directly answering the question: "Do you think EVE Online would be better to play or worse to play if the graphic looked like this eventually?"

    The question is ill posed. You could color in the graphic that way right now, if you felt like it. The problem occurs when you try to map political realities of EVE onto the graphic. The dynamics of nullsec are much too complicated to be represented by a giant blue donut with any accuracy. E.g.: For a long time, the CFC and Test were 'blue' to each other, while they were in actuality plotting each other's destruction, and they remained blue to each other on many influence maps even after Test had formed the HBC, in what is now clear represented the conquest by subversion of 3 entire regions of nullsec from the CFC. Undoubtedly the same is true now: coalitions which people believe to be blue or NIP'd are making moves against each other which require careful study to see from the outside. Heck, look at the Chinese EVE server, years of stasis just turned into a massive war of conquest there.

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  14. Who could have predicted than a bunch of players would be so dedicated as to keep together an empire big enough to break the game?
    Ironically, the game is broken mostly for players that would reach close to the same level of dedication. These guys have nowhere to go.

    The run-of-the-mill lowsec pirate or highsec carebear don't really clash with whatever the Goons are hugging.
    They might not even notice if the Goons were gone.

    Anyone remember how it was before the Goons? Is that a place worth striving to get back at? I honestly don't remember.
    Having the Blue Donut probably don't impact on the decision to stay or not in the game.
    It will cut the wings of anyone having Mittens-like ambitions and probably reduce the time they are willing to put in the game.
    But that only shorten the path to the bitter-vet status that we all have to walk.

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  15. "Ironically, the game is broken mostly for players that would reach close to the same level of dedication. These guys have nowhere to go."

    Now THAT is a damn fine observation.

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  16. It's rather tragic that no one seems to understand what irony is anymore. Thanks for the response, Alanis.

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  17. It is a fine observation, but there's a corollary: power abhors a vacuum. CCP's task is therefore to either diminish the scope of the power inherent in large and highly-organized entities, or to increase the size of the vacuum so that no foreseeable power can fill it. The former option is not feasible under current sovereignty mechanics. The latter option may (or may not) be feasible; I just don't know.

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  18. What more could I add than the image is bad propaganda? The Russians aren't part of the CFC so the entire premise of the image is false. If that's your idea of insightful then you should just stop blogging.

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  19. […] You can read the rest of the comments in the original thread. […]

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  20. Maybe its time all these Eve websites / Blogs start to give the new groups some better pr. Like the rise of the "Darwins Lemmings" against the cfc alliances. The best way to create new groups is to give them good pr.

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  21. its not ccps job to "fix" this. its us the players. People need to stop believing or stop spreading the goon propaganda of the unbeatable cfc. people like you need to stop making it look like they could do it. you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy by demotivating anyone who would want to fight this.
    Whats needed is people who speak up for the cause of fighting goons and their minions, people need to point out that out of 10k members goons only have about 4k active subscriptions. People need to get their shit together, people need to rally for the cause, and people need to fight them on all fronts - rather than hoping for their knight in shiny ccp armor to come and safe 'em.
    If ccp did that they would ruin the sandbox forever.

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  22. The big question is what do you do against the whole universe conquered by Goons?
    Because whining and posting won't stop them!

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  23. You're missing the entire point. What you describe is true. The current state of affairs is the natural evolution of things in the sandbox. But you fail to address the question of "Is it healthy for the game?"

    No, it is not. New players coming to Eve Online have precious few options in the sandbox these days. The elite organizations won't take them because of insufficient SP and/or game knowledge. That leaves them with BNI, RvB, or random hisec noob corp for choices, unless they can get the bwoosh into an out-of-game community like GoonSwarm or TEST.

    The fact that mittens can even suggest to every one in CFC to get in a titan or super speaks volumes about how broken nulsec is becoming. Think about it. Titans and supers can't dock. So stations would become irrelevant. Every moon POSed up by a dick-star. No way to dead-zone assets because none of them will be in stations. Any smaller organization that dares to venture into nulsec will get blobbed by supercapital hot-drops.

    Once word gets out that going out to nul results in an uncounterable super blob, no one will bother. Industry will become even more impossible than it already is.

    Lets not even talk about the ecomonic power that will be brought to bear. All T2 resources come from nul/losec in the form of moon goo. A single monolithic entity in nulsec would be able to manipulate and control the entire T2 economy with a single word. If you think the ice interdictions or OTEC were bad, just wait until someone decides there will be another tech bottleneck.

    With income decided not by moon goo but by renter income, goons could literally close the faucet and make tech or any other moon goo sit at whatever price point they decide just for the lulz. For that matter, so could Stainwagon right now. They're sitting on every just about Thulium and Mercury moon in Eve.

    With so much income and no wars, a single nulsec-controlling entity could literally build whatever they want for as long as they want. Eventually, it will break the game. CCP is going to have to introduce some arbitrary limits to super caps, or make them undesirable in some way. They also will have to redesign sovereignty. It is not a question of if, but when. Or, they could just say screw it, close down Eve, and focus on vampires.

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