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Tuesday, January 21, 2014

Don't Apologize Unless You Did Something Wrong

As anyone who keeps up with what's going on in EVE Online knows, there was a huge battle in HED-GP over the weekend involving an estimated 4000 pilots. Two null-sec power blocks decided they would have a throw-down to decide the fate of the universe. Well, that's what they believe in their imaginations at any length. Really, about all they were going to decide was whether the big blue doughnut got larger or not. The majority of the EVE Universe would have continued on with barely a blink and a nod. But that's just my opinion, sitting in high-sec, playing my own game the way I want to play it.

And from that vantage point, I could not believe some of the things I was reading on Twitter from some of the participants of that fight. They were angry at CCP because of the Soul Crushing Lag message they were getting, etc., etc. Here, read for yourself: Tweets about HED-GP. Twitter it seems is forever, so these tweets should be there for some time - unless the sender deletes them. Can they do that? It doesn't matter. That's not what this post it about. Moving on now. Don't get me wrong, there were lots of good, positive things said during the day. But the whining and outright demands made by some of those caught up in the Soul Crushing Lag were ridiculous. One I found particularly silly went something like, "I had that dread for over two years. Thanks CCP." Dude, rule number one is don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. Stop being a cry baby. What'd you expect would happen when 4000 capsuleers tried to jump into the same system and launch thousands upon tens of thousands drones, missiles, bullets and laser pulses?

Then, today (today being Tuesday,) I read that CCP apologized to them for the Soul Crushing Lag. You - have - got - to - be - kidding - me. What the hell does CCP have to apologize for? For allowing the other tens of thousands of capsuleers online that day to play through? At it's peak, Tranquility hosted 50,245 players on Sunday. And to be certain, during the course of the battle in HED-GP, many more people than that came and went in the EVE Universe without even noticing the Soul Crushing Lag elsewhere in New Eden. But for some reason, the less than 8% of players who were in HED-GP think they deserve an apology. What you all really deserve is a dunce hat. Soul Crushing Lag was the completely predictable result of your activities that day. In my book you can place the blame on yourself for being just plain dumb.

It doesn't end there though. There are demands by those involved, the less than 8% at peak log in, that CCP must resolve the Soul Crushing Lag issue now and with whatever resources are needed. Some are leveraging the apology to get just that. Doing so would be a horrendous waste of CCP resources. There are so many play styles in this game, so many things to do, so many other players doing other things. Yet this vocal minority must feel they are the only reason EVE Online exists. I have news. They aren't. They aren't even close to the majority - I don't care how many alts they have. That day there were over 200 mission runners and gankers in Apanake. At this very moment while I write, there are 117 in Osmon, with a concurrent log in total of 30,040 pilots. There are always more than 1000 pilots in Jita. At practically any given time, if you take all the trade hubs together, they probably equal the number in HED-GP that day. And all these players are happily doing those things which make EVE Online fun for them sans Time Dilation let alone Soul Crushing Lag. That's incredible when you think about it.

CCP should stop apologizing to the self-important null-sec blowhards who think this game is just about their play style. CCP should only apologize if they do something wrong, and they did nothing wrong - even having another system on the same node as HED-GP for a time. There was no foul in that. The rest of us greatly appreciate the remaining nodes of Tranquility hummed along with hardly a hiccup all day, allowing us to play our way without the slightest bit of lag. To me, that is a monumental achievement. CCP should be lauded, as many less egotistical players have done. I'll reiterate. Well done CCP.

Of course, the vocal minority will likely start to "shout" at me again. Things like, "You know nothing of null-sec," and, "STFU pubbie." That'd just be another indication of their own sense of self-importance. They fail to understand that far more people enjoyed playing EVE Online last Sunday than did not - myself included. Most of them were in high-sec carrying on business. If you take raw numbers into account, CCP should ignore those who went to HED-GP and continue down the path they've started upon. There is no reason to reinvent EVE Online because a few people want it to be other than it is. We live in a world of constraints, and FLOP limits are one of them. I'd tell the whiners to go play another game if there was one even remotely like EVE Online. Since there isn't, I'll just say next time be a little smarter about how you play and HTFU. It was your choice. CCP isn't to blame for anything.


  1. Looks like you let off a lot of steam there. Good post and I agree with you in most parts. CCP did all they could to make HED-GP as playable as possible and everybody knew that 4k players in one system will be hard.

    If a FC decides it is a good Idea to cyno in on zero to a X hundred fleet well, it should be common knowledge that grid load takes its toll.

    If the participants didn't want soul crashing lag than they could have used their huge fleets to RF 3 other Systems. CCP did everything right and the Eve Universe kept on spinning even with 4k people in one System. 30k other players enjoyed the game during that time too and if those whiners find a game where it is possible to have 4k+ Players fighting in a single battle they should go play there.
    It simply is an amazing result CCP achieved there and there is absolutely no point to apologize.

  2. Mabrick,

    I usually agree with the ideas you write in your posts, but this time I thik you are plainly wrong.

    First, people who commits capitals into a fight are aware they can lose their ships. In a fight. The problem is in HED there was no such fight. The guys who jumped into system did not have a fight: they waited for HOURS staring at a jump tunnel, and they found themselves killed before loading grid. This is not the same as losing a ship in a fleet fight after being primaried, or making some stupid mistake and being blown up. Their lose their ships because of a malfunction of the game servers, so the rage is fully justified.

    Second, it can be argued if the CFC/RUS strategy of jumping a bazillion ships into battle was intelligent or not, but it CAN'T be argued that with the current sov mechanics, ther is no other way to lose or win a system. And (this is just a guess), CCP is fine with that, since they like to brag about EVE being the only MMO where those "epic" fights with thousands involved can happen. The problem is that the current server software and infrastructure has been outgrown by the player content, and it can't support that scale of epic battles anymore.

    Third, the current mechanics also favour the drone proliferation. Specially the drone assist mechanic, and the enormous drone bays in carriers. There has been a lot of noise about this for MONTHS, and to this date CCP has done nothing to fix or at least aleviate it. Oh, they are about to give us the ESS, which nobody has asked for.

    Finally, the importance of nullsec for the game goes beyond the number of characters (not players) living and fighting there. CCP sells EVE using those epic battles, the nullsec metagame and the dreams of empire. CCP does not promote EVE as a "space mining game", nor a "space industry game". And, of course, does not try to sell it using its awesome PvE experience. And right now, CCP does not deliver up to their own publicity in regard to nullsec playground.

  3. While I can agree with most of your points, CCP admittedly did mess up by putting G-0 on the same node as HED-. G-0 being a major staging system for many involved in this war. So there was a actual mistake made in the set up for the fight.

    The other aspect is that CCP uses these huge Null Sec Blowhard fights for advertising, they get more press than say "20 box mining operations!" or the ever present "Run Level 4 missions for hours in almost perfect safety!"

    Not that I am pointing at anyone's playstyle as wrong, it is a sand box, just like CCP doesn't play up the whole "4000+ people fighting at 1% speed! so if you are a part of this war expect to sit at your computer ALL DAY without actually being able to shoot much since time slows down!"

    And of course this doesn't even touch on the whole "People that join null sec alliances play the game longer" or anything.

  4. I agree for the most part, but I think it was okay for CCP to apologize simply because it's good business: if your client has a less-than-satisfactory experience with your product, it doesn't hurt to apologize.

    ...but I'll betcha a blow pop within the halls of CCP HQ, employees are shaking their heads saying something along the lines of, "entitled nullbear F1 monkeys! HTFU like you always tell your highsec carebear counterparts!" AAAAnd having a good laugh at them, too.

    After all, isn't this the same company that watched people get slaughtered during the live-event on big screen monitors? (Or is that just a vicious and amusing rumor?)


  5. Good Post.

    Several years ago, before CCP's current Time Dilation system, Fleet fights would be nothing but lag - I died several times before even getting to target anyone and suddenly found myself in a station in a pod. After TIDI, we got to play through some amazing fights and battles, including one a while back in lo-sec that involved 2700 pilots at peak - I was there at that very moment. I forget the system, but it started with a Titan "jumping" instead of "bridging." Then everybody piled in to attack or defend. Great day, except for the Titan pilot.

    CCP also now has a deal where you can inform them of impending large fleets and they will reinforce nodes as needed to handle it. This seems to help as well. While I complain as much as anyone about some things CCP does, This area is one they have tried to really help us with. Technology and equipment costs money. Having EVERY node in the game "reinforced" to handle a fight like that would likely be cost-prohibitive. Even reinforcing Null-Sec won't work - reference the big fight above in LO-sec. Personally, I pay enough for my several accounts.

    In the end, It is a GAME. Enjoy it. If you put together the ISK to fly a big shiny, then you can do it again if you lose it. Not saying it doesn't hurt - I remember losing ships and having to fly smaller ones until I made enough ISK to replace them. Even when I have the ISK, it hurts, and I tend to sulk for a few days when I lose a shiny. But, in the end, it is just a game. It is FUN, not stress - real people are not shooting at us with real Bullets, as Mabrick and I have both experienced in our past.

    Chill, and enjoy.

  6. Agree with pretty much everything you've said. Interestingly, when the shoe was on the other foot (6VD-T & the shambolic live event to Doril) the goons & co were thanking CCP.

    Do please note that there are plenty of null sec guys that prefer & enjoy lag free small gang pew pew.

  7. "CCP uses these huge Null Sec Blowhard fights for advertising"

    Where is this? really where?! I keep hearing this from the participants of null. But seriously, the last video released for the Rubicon had two pilots in a Ghost Site. Their video prior to that had the new destroyers killing a scorpion. Are you talking about "I was there"? That's about 100 a side in that - no where near the "thousand" blob. Butterfly Effect? Still no. So, where is this mythical massive fleet advertising you all talk about?

  8. I partially agree with you. CCP does a decent job allowing the rest of the universe to play while big fights happen elsewhere. But the technical issues are evident. Nodes span multiple systems, when in an ideal situation, they shouldn't. There should be a clear separation of responsibilities, which would result in better overall performance. On the other hand, the costs of such design are not trivial. The hardware is most likely pretty aged right now. And let's not forget about the tradeoff between production time and application performance - single threaded python cannot compare with multithreaded c++.

  9. If CCP were to spend money ensuring 5000 people could fight in a single system then you can bet your last ISK that the blobs would try to jump 6000 people into the system.

  10. And when the system's lagging
    You can lay the blame on CCP
    Whine until tomorrow
    Little bees

  11. All those caps were protected under SRP from the alliances that KNEW they were trying to crash the node tbh this is how null has been done since b4 tidi. Completely agree with mab. Im sorry all u null sec noobs are just finding out why all the vets live in low and npc null. Here's another lil secret over about 500v500 the fights suck oh it looks cool and its good press but the fight it self is boring as hell unless u are one of 2 fcs. Target press f1. Oh yeah now its just launch drones assist why even target. Null sec is for noob care bears and the hucksters that make trillions of isk off them. the real pvp is elsewhere.

  12. Ppl that join null play the game longer??? Btw u are not gonna shoot anyway no matter the tidi u could just afk cuz u assisted your drones.......gotta love the null sec version of pvp.....

  13. The limits of CCP's systems are currently fairly well known, so I don't really have any sympathy for those stuck in it. Do I hope that one day their technological capabilities allow for 5k players to engage in one system, absolutely! Until that happens the stream of complaints for participating in battles that you know damn well will end in 10% TiDi don't hold much ground for me.

    Frankly I keep thinking that if PL & Co had jammed their fleets into HED, CFC should have sent enough ships into the system to get in to 10% TiDi, and subsequently sent 3-4 fleets into other undefended systems.


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