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Monday, November 11, 2013

Marauder Madness

I was able to catch a few matches of the Syndicate Competitive League tournament yesterday. Here's the link: You'll need it to watch soon enough. I find it's great background for whatever else I need to do. Yesterday I was doing some file maintenance and synchronizing between my main system and laptop so had Twitch on the T.V. screen via the Xbox. Damn I love living in the 21st century.

The matches I got to watch were pretty much what I expected. I have to agree with the commentator who said EVE Online isn't easy to watch and there is a lot of interpretation the viewer needs to do. It certainly isn't as exciting to watch as Starcraft II. The World Championship at BlizzCon Saturday was incredible! (Poor JaeDong, always the bridesmaid; never the bride. Congrats SoS, brilliant play!) Actually, it may have been one of the CCP developer guests who made the interpretation comment. Regardless, that isn't what I want to discuss.

What I want to discuss was what happened starting at about one hour and 30 minutes into the broadcast. Go back up and click on the video link if you haven't already. Position the playback cursor at 1:30 on the timeline. You should be at The Ronin versus Deepwater match. The Ronin pretty handily won this match. Who won is not the point of this post either. The point of this post is the Golem from the time it went into bastion mode.

Yeah, the tournament was on Singularity. This was the first opportunity for me to personally see the new bastion mode on a Marauder in action. At this point in the match, The Ronin have eliminated all Deepwater ships except the Golem. The Ronin still have their Paladin, Eos, Prophecy, Ishkur times two and Enyo times two on the field. That is ALL of their DPS minus an Enyo. So you'd expect The Ronin to blitz the Golem and take it out. Right?

Wrong. The Golem went into bastion mode and tanked The Ronin's DPS until the match timer expired. It lasted five minutes. That was with a neutralizer and NOS or three on it. The Ronin just could not break its tank fast enough. Here's the end of the match for the record.
Now, I'm not worried about this when it comes to PvP, not that I think they'll get used a lot. I've been on more than enough carrier bashes to know it's easy enough to get help when you have one pointed. Who wouldn't want to whore-in on a Marauder kill? And forget fleet fights. What fleet compensation plan could ever afford to replace those hulls? Here's the current pricing of a Golem. That's 1.2 billion, with a 'b', ISK. I doubt you'll see them in fleets when much cheaper Megathrons and Dominixes will get it done. And don't even get me started on wormholes. Read this forum thread. It starts out,
Keith Planck: "I, for one, am looking forward to welcoming our new Marauder overlords"
Rengas: <sarcasm> "I'm sure dreads will have an exceedingly difficult time tracking stationary battleships which cannot receive reps." </sarcasm> (hypertext markup my own)
Keith Planck: "Who's talking about PvP?"
*ROTFLMAO* Who's talking PvP... that's rich. I actually know someone who's lost a couple Kronos in a C3. Marauders draw PvP like honey draws flies. There will be PvP; 'nuf said.

What I'm worried about is how this will affect PvE play. As part of my SoE standing grind, I've been getting level IV combat missions as my story line missions. I've been running them in a Dominix with a micro jump drive. I've been kiting the hell out of Rogue Drones and Angel Cartel battleships with drones and rails using Spike. They've never gotten close to breaking my single large repper, but I still have to "play" them. If I'm stupid about it, I die. I can't tank them at point blank range.

After Rubicon, I can use a Marauder (not that I'd spend that sort of ISK personally.) If the Deepwater Golem is any indication, this will make any level IV PvE mission more a cakewalk than ever. I'd like to believe this new feature is necessary for running higher level DED in null-sec or something. But truth is, if someone used a ship that expensive to complete those mission, they deserve to have their pod blown out of it. The tried and true Tengu is cheaper. The same goes for low-sec, only faster. I know people who would make 20 jumps to get in on those kills any day. Hell, their buddies will hold the Marauder until they get there in all likelihood. I've seen it done.

Nope, high-sec will become the place we're most likely to see Marauders. Garret Troopers will sit outside stations all over empire space showing off their blinged out rides while mission monkey's will run roughshod over level IVs. Bastion mode is a neat idea, but I can't help but feel it'll be too unbalancing for EVE Online's already weak PvE. And there really is no reason to use one in PvP. It'll just get primaried if you dare bring it out. But it's your billion plus ISK, so enjoy bastion mode in PvP if you can afford it. And I suppose in PvE the warp gates could always just refuse to allow Marauders through. Either way, I see necessary changes coming from this unbalancing new Rubicon feature. Or, is it really just to make tournaments more interesting? I'll just leave you all with that thought.


  1. Great post. What I think is funny about some high sec residents is that they actually think their blinged out ships are actually safe in High Sec. PvP will happen everywhere in Eve and in some ways High Sec is much more dangerous than low/null/wh, only because the sense of security that high sec offers forces people to drop their guard and fly stupid. High sec peeps rarely ever use d-scan because they've never really had to, so when they're getting combat scanned down they don't even know it :)

    1. If you go hard out rep and no buffer.... and the if loot drop is likely to be favorable for the attackers side. X and A types are honey to the bees....

      Mab - I'd point out that the Marauders have an advantage in mission completion speed, most especially the Vargur with its tunable damage. Damage projection under bastion will make this even more so.

      Pirate ships can rival them, but have lot less tank - and are about as pricy. You pays for what you gets I guess.

  2. You do realize that the smart players will NOT use Marauders in PvE.

    Across the board, they are getting smaller drone bays, thereby doing less DPS. And the Kronos and Paladin are finished with the loss of the web bonus. Further, these things take forever to warp between systems on Rubicon, so that will hurt effective ISK / hour. Yes, they can tank forever. No doubt about that. But once you can tank a Level 4 and still have 3 damage mods in the lows, then any extra tank is overkill.

    People will continue to use Pirate BS's over Marauders because the DPS is superior, thereby the ISK/hour is superior.

    And don't even get me started on the stupidity of thinking that people will go into bastion mode in incursions.

    No, the entire change wrecked the entire hull class.
    What I expect to see is an actual nerf of the current Rubicon stats, because the morons doing the changes will think "oh man, these are OP for the 0.01% of the player base that do tournament play, and we have to wreck the class further so they can be used in tourney's".

    1. "not that I'd spend that sort of ISK personally," is my way of saying it's dumb to use Marauders for PvE. Yes, I do realize smart players won't use them. However, EVE Online is full of less than smart players is it not? And they will make missions that are supposed to be hard that much easier, so some may be tempted. BTW, did you know you can clear C3 Sleeper sights by yourself in a Marauder? That's always a temptation because that's a LOT of ISK all to one's self. But yeah, personally I'd rank that up there with non-smart things to do unless you have the ISK to burn or simply yearn to use bastion mode.

    2. [quote]You do realize that the smart players will NOT use Marauders in PvE.[/quote]

      smart players should already be avoiding marauders in L4. I only reason I considered one was for the use of 4 weapons instead of 7/8 as a cost reduction for less ammo consumption. with the MJD able to kite to 100km instantly - what good is a 48km tractor reach? particular since I can launch salv drones to operate outside that range anyway. even avoiding bling, flying a tech1 one hull I expect to be scanned every other day by some hopeful pirate looking for their next score.

      incursions got kicked in the teeth when a player gets caught with a 68bil fitting. it put up a neon sign to any wannabe pirate that incursion were the one-stop gank shop. hopefully once the pinata's are all popped the level of "content consumption" will decline, and gankers will return to loitering in mission hubs looking for more rank than tank. (rank = officer)

  3. Remember, Mab, not all wormholes are C3 and larger. Having some of these pocket dreadnaughts in a C2 or would potentially make for an interesting force multiplier.

  4. I dunno, the last few expansions have been pretty PVE heavy, all things considered. A few short years ago the only feature tossed to PVE players content wise was "2 new 1/10 and 3 2/10 have been added to X faction to round things out", even though no one really noticed they were missing to begin with.

    So, with that in mind... there is an off chance CCP added the ship tailored to PVE content that hasn't landed yet. I know, I know. Very hopeful and unlikely. But all the stuff on CCPs roadmap to stargates and colonization is going to require new PVE content to get the resources for them, so it's at least in the realm of possibility for once.

  5. Some people simply don't like the ugly missiles spitting tengu ;-)
    A Kronos is so much more beautiful. And you are worried about money? Have you checked the sub capital kills in the last month or so?
    There are enough Nightmares, Machariels or Tengus with fittings much more expensive than the marauders.
    If you destroy the marauder the hull wont drop and with the bastion bonus a cheap T2 equipment will get the job done. Much less a gank friendly target than the machariel next to it with x-type shield booster and caldari navy invuls / balistics / what ever.

    And as I said, some people just like the eye candy provided with bastion.

  6. Pve is rubbish and repetitive. The point of the sand box is PvP if you want to shoot things. The pve content is just to make some isk. All this whining about pve content has made a balls of things because it is now harder for independent, casual pvpers to get isk for ships. **** pve. Change it back to complete idiot npcs, let people get isk to kill people with easier.


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