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Friday, May 24, 2013

Connecting the Dots Known as Anoikis

During her Fanfest presentation, CCP Seagull referenced 1-year rolling plans, a 3-year road map and a 5-year vision for Eve Online. It was during the 5-year vision talk that she mentioned things like "space colonization" and the "right kind of stargate." This has echoed in the back of my mind ever since.

One reason is because it made me want to shout, "Hey, there already IS space colonization going on. It's call Anoikis. We colonized it. Something you thought we'd never do, but we did." That statement is true. I live in a wormhole system with a whole lot of other capsuleers. It is ours. We have colonized it.

Of course, I didn't shout that at my monitor while I watched Fanfest. I'm not that far gone. But I have also never stopped thinking about it. Most players see this space colonization possibility as referencing new space. There are plenty of hints to that effect. I don't disagree with such speculation. There will eventually be new space for capsuleers to explore, conquer and call their own. I think the vision goes so far as to allow for completely capsuleer run empires out there among the stars.

But what I want to know is will CCP do this for currently colonized systems as well. What could this mean for Anoikis? Part and parcel to this colonization vision, which is fait accompli in Anoikis, is the "right kind of stargate" thing. For a group of capsuleers to get to these new colonization areas, they would have to build a new type of stargate. It would be a huge undertaking but it would open up these new frontiers. Would CCP allow them to be built in Anoikis? Why not?

Gates do not currently exist in Anoikis for a variety of reasons, the biggest one being the Sleepers. I am certain they would destroy any gate before it was completed. But that was before capsuleers started colonizing Anoikis. In our system, we have the Sleepers firmly under control. They are not a threat. The sleeper argument is moot.

The other issue I see with stargates in wormholes would be the strange weather we have. Black Holes, Wolf-Rayets, Cataclysmic Variables: they all have to play hell with current gate technology. That's now however. In the future, gates will be more advanced. Why couldn't enterprising, intelligent and dedicated capsuleers research and develop gates that compensate for Anoikis weather? I am certain Sleeper technology holds the secret to that technology. Let that sink in a moment. With advanced stargates and wormhole technology we could built stargates in Anoikis space.

Again I ask, why not? All worm hole systems have their random connections. After living here for some time, I've come to understand they really aren't all that difficult to manipulate. We do it all the time. Need a good pipe to high-sec for loot movement and the current pipe sucks? Roll the static and get a new pipe! Don't like that K162 from null-sec? We can mass close it in seconds. We control our wormholes just as assuredly as CONCORD controls high-sec stargates. We just have to go through a few extra steps to do it. It really is not that hard.

Currently there is one thing that is damn hard to do in Anoikis: conduct multi-system operations. There is no guarantee that once a capsuleer organization expands into another wormhole system they'll have access to that system again once the connection dies. Eventually another connection would be found. In fact, we do similar connection finding operations already for other reasons. But it's damned dicey, takes time, and isn't a lot of fun.

If I could build a stargate to connect two wormhole systems together, I'd be very, very tempted to do so. Does that constitute an extreme risk? Yes, it does. There is the time and ISK involved in building it in the first place and the cost of having a "direct" line of advance into your home as well. Is it a game destabilizing change? I doubt it. It just makes easier what we already to. As with all things, the pros and the cons must be weighed - but I am certain there are those in Anoikis who would build stargates if for no other reason than to reduce the complexity of that black box Jester wrote about. It would be nothing more than the Anoikis version of a super-capital and jump bridge. It doesn't ruin null-sec so I doubt it'll ruin Anoikis.

So if stargates are allowed in Anoikis, what could they connect to? Could a C6 connect directly to high-sec? Why not? I would say this must be allowed under the "in for a penny, in for a pound" philosophy. But don't make it easy. In fact, a stargate from Anoikis to known space would be the most difficult, and most expensive, stargate to build.

Anoikis Stargate Tech Tree
If I had to formulate a technology tree for Anoikis stargates, this is what I would envision. Like known space, there would be different sizes of stargate to get to various types of regions. Constellation stargates would be the smallest and easiest to build. Stargates to known space would be extremely hard to build. The construction of these stargates would also require sleeper technology to compensate for the nature of wormhole space. This would be different than "normal" capsuleer advanced stargates. That would make these gates a T3 technology. Standard advanced capsuleer built gates would be a T2 technology leaving the current gates as the T1 versions.

So what do you think? Should wormhole denizens be allowed to build stargates should CCP's vision come to pass? I'd like to read arguments from both sides of that question. If yes, why and how do you think it would affect Anoikis? If no, why not and who would it hurt? With CCP looking to make the sandbox even more engaging, I can't imagine they would really want to just dismiss this possibility. For the same effort they will invest anyway, they could create an entirely new challenge to some of the most hard core and dedicated players they have. That's gotta be worth consideration.

Fly Careful


  1. Connecting WHs with Stargates? Yes please. But it has to be REALLY expensive with high running costs.

  2. Certainly an interesting idea. The WH community will need to discuss this. I have already heard some voices saying this would destroy the hallmark feature of dynamic connections that are offered by wormholes. Where I completely agree, though is that we do not need new systems in the first place. I would rather see management of existing stargates given in the hand of capsuleers. When it comes to colonization I would like to see existing space to be better utilized before new systems are explored. Let's start building acceleration gates and colonize deadspace before we move on to new systems:

  3. If Bob the wormhole good is truly out there I hope he will never ever allow that. It will take away the one dominating thing that sets w-space apart from k-space: the randomness. Sure we can control things in our home system but as soon as one static is gone, we have no control over where the next one will lead. That is the beauty of w-space. The only unknown left in the EVE universe. The only truly random and therefore uncontrollable thing left.

    We don't need wormhole stabilizers (or gates as they would be called now). If anything, we need more randomness again. More random factors in sites, in wormholes maybe even changing in system effects?

  4. Questions to ask:
    GSC or TCU(shows up on overview)?
    POS or Jump bridge style fueling(constant or when ship jumps or mixed, another question)?
    If the second how is fuel cost calculated and is there a difference between the gates(the Meta 5 could have a lower fuel/mass cost to partly comp for longer range or maybe a flat constant fuel/mass)?
    Would you have more/less fuel costs based on system weather, either a higher overtime cost, more if jumping to/form a system depending on weather or systems with weather have an overtime fuel cost vs those in systems w/o weather don't have overtime cost?
    Jump bridge style with having a gate on both ends or cyno style with only one being an entrance and one being an exit?

  5. I would never allow Anoikis to connect with k-space ddirectly... if for nothing else than the distance... I would say a sort of sov system for whether you can or cannot build it or not, as well as constellation, region and so forth having a say as well as distance playing a factor, adding to that jumps should have a cost on player owned gates, much like current titan bridges.

  6. I don't think player stargates would be allowed to be built in Hi-Sec or Lowsec. I would expect stargates to be treated just like outposts where sovereignty is required to build them.

    What I don't understand is why Anoikis space can't have sovereignty. I believe you should be able to build an outpost there.

    My thought would be that Anoikis space wouldn't be able to build Stargates. You would have a different structure that would all you to control the wormhole so it doesn't collapse. If you like a connection then build the structure and keep it open until you take down the structure and move it to a different connection you like. There should be a fuel cost not POS fuel, maybe made from gas to maintain keeping the wormhole open.

    Putting up the structure should be fairly easy, say 1 hour. This would allow for you to build one to invade a different wormhole. On the flip side it should be relatively weak so somebody could destroy it and collapse the connection to prevent the wormhole staying open.

  7. I don't think w-space stargates would be a good idea.

    If the cost was titan-esque, then only the largest alliances would be able to build them and take advantage of them. The benefits to logistics, or additional system to farm for funds, would only strengthen the already strong alliance.

    If the cost was more carrier-esque, the obvious benefits would likely result in a much more connected w-space, allowing easy, non-scanned passage between multiple systems. We would have a minor version of New Eden.

    Sure, wormholes will still spawn and can still be used to good effect, and stargates that can take ships out can bring them in, but I think an addition of stargates would lead to mostly negative consequences for w-space life. One system connected to another would effectively be a single system for the sake of occupation. Connect a few systems together, and you end up with a similar situation to null-sec.

    There will always be suggestions to bring w-space closer to k-space, or high-sec closer to low, or low-sec closer to null, but, after my experiences in-game, I think any such move would undermine the spirit of each class of space. It would be far preferable for a new class of space be opened that was similar to w-space but allowed stargates, and see and allow whatever emergent behaviour resulted, than to retrofit stargates in to w-space.

  8. 6 months after implementation, gates will be built to every single system and that will be the end of WH space as any sort of "other place" in EVE. I don't know if that's good or bad, but you can be sure it will pave the way for large sov holding alliances to add new systems to their collection.

  9. C5/C6 do have connection to hs(D792). Just need to be patient :)

    Large wh alliance has no issue doing logi.

    Random connection and mass limit can (somehow) shut down blobing and ugly space politics, that's why w-space is least broken.

  10. Building a connected constallation of stargates would draw in 'Empire' builders, Allainces that want control and coordination between 'like' groups. Much like NS... Perhaps the colonization is more 'ground' based? SIMCITY in Eve...

  11. I like the idea of having gates that connect wormhole space but I think they shouldn't be incredibly tough to destroy. Attacking or Defending gates could be some fantastic gameplay!

  12. While I agree with Mab on many things, in this I disagree with him quite strongly.

    Gates in Anoikis is in the same vein as wormhole stabilizers and such, and I feel it would break W-space's very special place in EvE Online.

    I agree fully with PJHarvey that to make it a 'cost' based structure or module would benefit only W-space Alliances such as SYJ [HAHA] (yes my Alliance and NO I do not feel we should have this) and that it would be just one more nail in the coffin of small to medium corps getting a foot hold in Anoikis.

    HBHI spent YEARS as a small corp living in holes... we made it until we decided to up our game and join SYJ. The fact that they camped us was not the determining factor in our joining them... the fact that they acted professionally throughout and once a dialog was established they worked with us to reach an accord was.

    When they camped us we initially were looking at saving as much as possible and then finding either an Alliance such as Talocan or another corp or 2 to setup shop with in another C3 or C4 in order to give us greater assets to react to serous camps and to fight back with... we only decided to join SYJ AFTER we saw how professionally they handled the whole affair in our old C3.

    It has since proved to be a good fit with our morals, gameplay and expectations and in the months since joining we have stated that SYJ camping us was the 2nd best thing that has ever happened to HBHI... (the first was us founding HBHI) =]

    As for gates in Anoikis... I reiterate that I feel it would break the very special place W-space has in EvE Online... the randomness of 'naturally' occurring holes, the lack of real control over one's entrances and exits is for me, one of the best features of Anoikis... we live in a virtually natural place in space... no man made gates, no man controlled access... imagine a farm, wayyy back in the woods... but one where the driveway changes where it pops out every night. One day it is in France, the next, Germany... the next California... I do not want to KNOW where I am going to come out when I follow the order to "jump the hole"... I love the excitement of not knowing what new place my driveway will lead to... even if I have been there before... =]

    No, leave the man made 'gates' to those in Empire space, we have all we need in Anoikis just as it is. =]

    1. My friend Tur, have a look at the post again. In what paragraph did I say I actually want this? It's a devil's argument post. One to get Anoikis dwellers to look at what CCP Seagull's vision could mean. That word, could, is the type of word I use throughout the post. Its definition states the word is, "Used to indicate possibility." So is the word if, which I used half a dozen times. That's all this is, a possibility. But by some folk's reactions, especially over on reddit where someone linked me and it peaked at #7 on the controversy list, are certainly more than I bargained for. Oy!

  13. OH... well, uh, ummm... now don't I feel all facepalmy... =\ LOL

  14. I am opposed to the idea of stargates in wormhole space.
    I am open to the idea of destructible player built stargates in null and maybe low.

  15. Wow, we have null sec whining that they want to be like wspace and now a wormholer wanting to make wspace into nullsec.... NO.

  16. This would destroy small corp/alliances in W-space. Multi-system stability means multi-system alliances, and larger alliances means nullsec politics and power blocs.
    If they were introduced, there would be no choice about using them either. Your alliance would need to use them in order to remain competitive in T3 production. Speaking of which, the markets for W-goods would crash, further tilting the cost/benefit equation of new corps starting out without gates...


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