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Monday, April 8, 2013

You Will Sometimes Pay a Price for Their Ideals

Today Grimmash published his 30 day PI challenge results. You can read about his results here. I am also going to borrow his table showing his results. I know he won't mind.
He flat out calls my claims false. However, I will just point out that he DID NOT follow the formula I laid out. His skills were not maxed in the categories I said they would need to be maxed. That was NOT optional. It does make a difference. He could not run all the planets he needed nor all the planetary facilities he needed to give my claims a fair trial. Using the word "false" is unwarranted IMO.

Still, I would not go so far as to call it true either. Kao Jai has made it plain to me that he cannot make half a billion ISK a month with high-sec PI. He can make more than twice what Grimmash did, but that is not what I'd said.  Since I can't really say 500 mISK a month is plausible, I'll cop to...
And I said as much. In my follow-up detailing Kao Jai's efforts, I admitted to being overly optimistic. Still, neither Kao nor Grimmash lost ISK. They both made ISK with not a lot of effort, though perhaps not a lot of fun either. I think that is the real takeaway here. There really is no need to be a poor noob.

But Grimmash goes on in the second half of his blog to discuss a few other ways new bros can make ISK with the same or less training time than PI requires. Grimmash concludes noobs must have an "active" play style to get the most from this Internet spaceship game. That is how it's meant to be played. This makes me wonder if his PI effort wasn't somehow tainted by this bias, but that's okay. Kao Jai is much less conflict oriented than most people. I know he has no such bias and he couldn't do it either.

But back to Grimmash's ideal of the "active" play style being the one you must adopt to get the most fun from Eve Online. Codswallop! No, you don't. If you are of a mind set like Kao Jai that blowing up things is not as enjoyable as making something, your options for making ISK become somewhat limited, but it is still doable. You have PI and you have manufacturing. Of the two, PI takes less time daily and less overall game knowledge IMO. It's easier to break into than manufacturing. That's why I recommend it to new bros who aren't conflict oriented.

And like Kao Jai, you don't have to give up your Internet spaceship game because people tell you it is for "active" play styles. You have as much right to play this game as anyone else. Just be aware you will be shot at and victimized. You will be a minority with all that status entails. They will call you carebear - and you will sometimes pay a price for their ideals.

Fly Careful


  1. HI! You are of course right. I did not use your skillset. I tried to make that abundantly clear throughout my initial and final write ups. If readers don't notice the modified skill set, or the paragraphs I devoted to explaining it, well, that's shit.

    However, based on Kao's results, and my results, and your statements, I felt safe in stating the original claim, and my modified hypothesis, were false. I also did note specifically that I made 134m isk free and clear. Readers can use that to base their judgments. Also noted was the impact of where a player was playing, and using non-HS space was specifically indicated as likely being more profitable.

    As for tainted experimentation, I will swear up and down I did my best throughout the whole project to ensure that my efforts were yielding as much as possible in the system I chose. I have absolutely no reason to try to sabotage your claims. I just wanted to see how they meshed up with my previous PI experience. The character it was done on is almost entirely industrial based. I have no problems with the non-active playstyle.

    The play-style bit under the commentary flag is exactly that, and why I noted it was commentary. I chose to evaluate how I would enjoy starting as a new player and spending the first 2 months training skills that had no active gameplay components. I also tried to provide some concrete suggestions as to what I though might make for a better experience and still make isk. I did note that many factors could affect your choice to dabble in PI, and it may be useful once you find you are satisfied with your ship flying progress. All of my characters have PI skills, but I only chose to train them once I had some other things taken care of.

    I'm sure people have played Eve as only industrialists, but spending the first two months devoted to PI still seems a poor choice to me. Anyhow, I'll go back and add some notes to my post to make sure your points are shared. I was not trying to misrepresent you, or the indy playstyle!

    1. I take you at your word sir. But if I'd just agreed with you that would have been boring. *wink*

  2. Lies! Slander! Deceit!

    I do throw my glove at thee! I shall refrain from addressing you as 'sir', as such a lowly cad is hardly deserving of a station amongst men of honour!

  3. The best ISK for the least training is Trade. Hands down, no argument about it.


Be civil, be responsible and most of all be kind. I will not tolerate poor form. There will be no James Hooks here. We are all better than that.