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Monday, April 22, 2013

Burn Jita Proves Null-sec is Broken and it's The Mittani's Fault

This past weekend Goonswarm launched another Burn Jita event. In my last post, I categorized this type of event as one predicated on contempt. Though the event has become infamous, IMO it does not further the goals of CCP, and therefore Eve Online, except in the shallowest of terms. It gets some press; that's about all it does for the community.

The logic of this is fairly basic as I see it. The event is for bored null-sec dwellers. Though that may count into the hundreds of individual players, it does not reach across play-styles and seek to create an event for all capsuleers. Is it nothing more than self-aggrandizing ego masturbation though?

You see, when it comes to Live Events, or any sort of event, it isn't enough that a large group of people decide to do something. Their play-style is but one of many. Unfortunately, Goonswarm sees many of those other play styles as nothing more than a target for their play-style. High-sec carebears to them exist to facilitate their gameplay; being otherwise worthless. In the eyes of Goonswarm, anyone not of them is less than nothing. How can their events not be ego masturbation when they have such contempt for the 80% of us who aren't in their little club?

And before you let loose your words of wrath against my question, why don't you read precisely what The Mittani said posted in pastebin and linked on reddit,
"Burn Jita 2.0: April 19-21st 2013

There are few things that we of nullsec can agree upon, but one of them is, inevitably, 'fuck hisec'. We will now wash away the frustrations of March's cold war by covering ourselves in the blood and suffering of the people of hisec, the weekend before Fanfest begins - just in time to remind these people who the fuck we are. As before, we will invite every null entity which wants to participate in our holy cause.

Last year there was a tremendous amount of publicity about Burn Jita, leading to a whole host of hisec movements and wardecs to counter our efforts. This year we will not be making public statements about the Burn or actively trying to advertise it. Yes, we are giving approximately 19 days of notice with this post, as well as coordinating across the CFC and the HBC if they want to participate, but the blind sleeping masses of hisec will not realize something is coming until it is too late. I am eager to see what happens to hisec if we show up without three months of wardrum-beating and hype, unannounced, and commence putting everything to the sword.

The first Burn taught us a lot. We know Jita has a population cap; we know there are only so many routes into the system which are traffic controlled. We know as well that goons in Jita enjoyed not only taking out freighters, but spreading the carnage by using thrashers to take out industrials of random passers-by. A Burn is fundamentally a terror operation; it is not so much about the isk value of each freighter destroyed as it is implanting fear into the hearts and minds of even the most humble industrialist in his Badger II. This year we will be not only ganking freighters and industrials within Jita, but Miniluv will patrol the lanes outside of Jita to destroy anyone trapped on the gates from traffic control. The number of humans involved means that it will still be a complete mess, but we expect our terror-sowing to be much more efficient than last year."
The emphasis is mine. The comments in bold support my point that they care nothing for large swaths of Eve Online players. Their contempt is self-evident. The statement in italics indicates to me Goonswarm is not interested in furthering Eve Online as a game. How much press led to Death Race? How much even to Hulkageddon before Goonswarm ruined it? Yes, they ruined it. I used to enjoy Hulkageddon but now it's just more of the same Goonswarm crapola but that's a digression. To the point, without lead-in advertising, an event is worth nothing to CCP. The point of such events is to show the outside world the awesomeness of Eve Online. Not to keep it "unannounced" and without "hype."

But there is something else there that hints of a larger problem. It is the line, "We will now wash away the frustrations of March's cold war." You know what that's about? It isn't ego masturbation. That's a comment as to the totally broken nature of null-sec. The are so afraid of fighting each other the entire region is a quaking pit of worry and frustration. Worry from those in charge, like The Mittani, who may lose control if they engage in open combat, and frustration from the masses of goondom who are told "no" to open combat at every turn.

I have to wonder if that's what original Goonswarm members signed on for? Did they sign on for glorious fleet fights or to gank people who couldn't give a shit about PvP? Let's analogize. I joined the U.S. Army in 1982. I was a cold war warrior. Then the Berlin Wall came down. The Cold War ended. We won - or so they told us. In reality I feel like I took a punch in the gut. What I wanted to do with my life no longer existed. My enjoyment of my career declined precipitously. My raison d'ĂȘtre was turned on its ear.

Now, don't take the wrong analogy from this. Many of you will jump on the point that Goonswarm is in a Cold War right now. That's not the relevant analogy folks. The relevant one is having your reason to exist pulled right out from under your feet. Not being able to do what you aspire to makes existence meaningless. What's the purpose of a soldier if he isn't allowed to defend something?

From there, only bad things can happen. When you are primed all your adult life to go 200 MPH for a glorious cause and then DIAF, pulling back is not in your vocabulary. I didn't want to and neither does the average Goon I suspect. I had to walk away from my former life - completely and utterly - to find solace. The goon-born, indoctrinated as they are to that existence, cannot. So they come to Jita and have become gankers rather than the PvP warriors they wanted to be.

In that light, Burn Jita tells me null-sec is broken. Null-sec isn't meeting the needs of those who live there so they prey on high-sec. Can that truly replace what they really want? That's hard to gauge but I doubt it. It's the difference between catching a Marlin and shooting fish in a barrel. The alternative conclusion is a null-sec op like Burn Jita is meeting the desires of those who live there. In that case, if the event does serve to "remind these people who the fuck we are," Goonswarm is not the conquerors of null-sec any longer - just a bunch of gankers slowly losing their PvP edge. If Burn Jita serves to remind us of who you are, you're a pale shadow of what you used to be.

And you can blame The Mittani. He is the one holding you back. He says,
"A Burn is fundamentally a terror operation; it is not so much about the isk value of each freighter destroyed as it is implanting fear into the hearts and minds of even the most humble industrialist in his Badger II."
Freighters? Industrialists? Really? Why aren't you putting fear into the hearts and minds of PL or NCDot pilots? The answer is because The Mittani won't let you. Go read the entire pastebin post. He claims,
"If we had rabbled more about Montolio it would have allowed him to distract his disparate anti-CFC coalition from their internal difficulties, so we clammed up."
So rather than give Goonswarm a whole lot of GF, he opted to clam up? WTF? His update goes on to say things like "we've reached the natural borders of our ability to defend" and "our war options amount to 'Wait for someone to attack us'." Oh, I'm sure that makes for fascinating politics but is that how null-sec should be? Is that fun for you? Then he substitutes Burn Jita for real PvP and tries to convince Goonswarm it's the same thing. I don't think it is. Neither should you.

Fly Careful

Note: comments on this post will be heavily moderated. Those comments that do not contribute to the discussion will not see the light of day. You are warned.


  1. I think commemorating the anniversary of Mittani's most epic fuck-up is a fine Goonish activity, and that he is actually willing to remind us of the debacle is a credit to him.

    That they couldn't summon the energy to hype the event for weeks, however, may be a sign of flagging interest among the Swarm. Are they not proud Goons? Do they really need his locker room pep talk to persuade them to go outside and have fun?

  2. Look... out the window... ahhhh let the sun shine in. =] ...and, you know, Goons.

    "As the leader of Goonswarm I must be willing to make ruthless decisions and take actions that many players find objectionable – griefing, ganking, scamming, ‘dishonorable’ fleet tactics, espionage, metagaming, blowing up everyone who tries to mine Gallente Ice, sponsoring Hulkageddon, et cetera – whatever it takes to defend my people in this, the most exceedingly hostile galaxy to grace the internet. As Darius JOHNSON, the previous Goonswarm leader once said...

    “[Goonswarm] is not here to destroy /the/ game, but /your/ game.

    kinda says it all dun'it?

  3. "Why aren't you putting fear into the hearts and minds of PL or NCDot pilots? "
    Because we don't have to. Then again no one is going to tell tales of mabrick in 2 years. You can just hide away in your wormhole writing upset pieces about goonswarm. Goons didn't join eve to satisfy or entertain you. They joined to do whatever they want. Goons are social, they play various games with each other.

    Taken from our recruitment post:
    "Join Goonswarm and you will be a Goon amongst thousands of Goons. Yes, most of the rest of the game will by turns despise, hate and fear you, but Eve is a lot more fun when played to the accompaniment of some horrible publord explaining on the official forums how you are the cancer that is killing the game. Preferably because you scammed him out of hundreds of dollars' worth of ships. The rest of the game, admittedly, wishes to destroy us and take everything we have, but that has been the case for three years, and every attempt has failed thus far."

    When your enemies are making mistakes, it would be rude to stop them. Again we don't play the game for you, we play the game for us. None of you rage bloggers seem to understand that.

    1. "...rage bloggers..." and, Yes, most of the rest of the game will by turns despise, hate and [sorry, but really NOT] fear you...

      You accept that you join the game as a Goon and in that you will be hated because your Alliance and it's "Don't Rock the Big Blue Cockring" leadership goes out of their way to BE hated by everyone else... and you call us 'rage bloggers'?

      Stop being assholes... stop being hatreful to everyone else and this will change... Actions speak louder than words and as long as Goons believe "fuck hisec", the WHOLE rest of the game will believe, "Fuck Goons"...

      And irregardless of the ISK lost... Burn Jita II was pretty much like most sequels... but a poor imitation of the first... your lousy leaders can't even come up with new shit for you to do... its really just sad.

    2. You sound mad. Did you lose a freighter?

      We were ready to go to war with PL/TEST if need be. That is a ton of structures though and boat has classes. If you want to kill them you do it!~

    3. You do realize goons don't mind being despised by the denizens of hi-sec, right? Reminding those zombies that EVE is *NOT* a single player game is the whole point.

    4. Players came to the directorate and asked if we could do it, so we did it. We killed more than last year. More people showed up to have fun than last year. You can discount it all you want, but it was a success. It will likely happen on a yearly basis.

      "Being Assholes" is subjective. We invited many people to come out and blow stuff up in a very friendly manner.

      It's easy to criticize and come up with raging diatribes when you are sitting around mining ice or doing PI in a wormhole.

      Considering we invented the phrase "Fuck goons" no one cares if people think that. It bugs a lot of people that we don't care. It apparently bugs you.

    5. Yes, we call you "rage bloggers", because that's all you do. You rage and bitch and moan and make up facts to support your assumptions as you go along. "hurr they must be burning jita because nullsec is fucked", no, we're burning jita because it makes people like you completely lose their shit.

      And no, we won't stop being assholes, we don't give a fuck if people go "fuck goons", because most of the people who live in hisec aren't worth paying attention to because they don't play eve as an MMO, they play it as a shittier, grindier X3.

      And considering "burn jita 2" destroyed vastly more freighters than the first, I'd call it "a poor imitation of the first" a shitty reinterpretation of the truth.

      Oh, and PS: it's regardless, not irregardless.

    6. It's almost as if every single non-nullsec resident is criticizing the 'blue donut' of the current null-sec, yet not a single one understands current sov mechanics, how boring it really is, and the futile reasoning behind conquering space you don't really want for the sake of conquering space.

      Killing dumb pubbies in Jita is, has been, and always will be amazingly fun; is it a contest of skill? Nope. It's about having fun, something most of you wordsmiths have seem to forgotten about.

  4. At least they were honest years ago when they said they were coming "to ruin your game".

    No lie there.

  5. I agreed with the first 97% of your post, but not the last 3%:

    "Oh, I'm sure that makes for fascinating politics but is that how null-sec should be? Is that fun for you? Then he substitutes Burn Jita for real PvP and tries to convince Goonswarm it's the same thing. I don't think it is. Neither should you."

    I don't think that's how null-sec should be, but I don't think that GSF leadership does either. I also don't think he's trying to convince GS that ganking = nullsec pvp, but that his narrative to them is that he's just offering a stopgaps until he can get CCP to change nullsec mechanics, at which point there will be more conflict in nullsec.

    1. The OP says that nullsec is broken, and he's certainly not saying that Goons broke it. Rather the reverse: that the sad state of nullsec seems to have broken even the Goons.

  6. you put words to many of my own thoughts this weekend, thanks for that :-)
    Jita burning has become pathetic !

  7. You've pretty much nailed it. Hopefully Odyssey will see a fairly radical shake-up to nullsec.

    The problem I see for null is that some very strong vested interests from the big blocks have tremendous influence. Most game designers are ex-bloc, most csm are bloc including the last 2 chairs. cf moon goo, sov grind and so on - all of which could be fixed by exposing the haves to more risk.

    Of course then they'd have to make null much more rewarding but it would certainly be an interesting game direction. Better than stagnant tech fat cat plutocracy.

    1. Dinsdale PirannhaApril 22, 2013 at 8:42 PM

      Who says that most of the game designers are EX-null sec bloc? What makes you think they ever left goons, or PL, or Test?

      And please don't say "because if the show bias CCP will fire them". The lead dev is a goon. The guy who ran security was a goon. We have no idea if the people in IA are null sec zealots, but their lack of action on firing the likes of soundwave pretty much indicate they are hugely biased towards null sec.

      So exactly who is going to fire virtually the entire dev and game design team, if the sub rate is going up? It may be because the null sec zealots are just running more accounts. CCP has said they don't have the tools to analyze the sub patterns.

      Bottom line, taking over CCP's direction for Eve is the biggest and highest stakes meta-game the null sec RMT cartels have engaged in.

      I have zero faith that any shakeup of null sec will do anything but strengthen the cash flows of the null sec RMT cartels. Things will change, like moon goo, but rest assured the game designers will give their null sec corp and alliance mates something far more lucrative, like the removal of T2 mfg from high sec.

    2. It's not a disaster while subs are going up. It will be a disaster if subs fall because of nullsec stagnation and vested interest prevents them from shaking it up.

      I'm interested to see what Odyssey and the next expansion do. If we still see an Eve where it's pointless trying to evict a big powerful null bloc then I think we'll see numbers decline. It's the Great Wars more than anything that capture new players' imaginations.

  8. I'm pretty new to Eve, but I know that when the drunken horde comes out to play, stay out of Jita... This is a big wide galaxy we play in, and if the Goons feel the need to completely Role Play their pirate adventures, let em. The only people they are hurting are the freighter pilots who can't be bothered to read any outside news sources. They don't want to play a multiplayer game, they want to solo. My Carebear mining corp lives VERY close to Jita... and we didn't lose a single ship to the drunkfest that is the Goons. We simply watched local a little bit more... Kept Dscan up... Used a bit more situational awareness... You know, all that stuff you're SUPPOSED to be doing ANYWAYS? The one and only kill I felt truly sorry for, was a guy who got up one morning, decided he would give EVE a go again, fired up his account, undocked and immediately got blapped because he didn't read local chat. Still his fault, but there is sympathy there.

    My point is this, we play in one single Galaxy. Just because we don't see the Mongols at our gate daily, doesn't mean we don't prepare for them to rape and pillage. Never fly what you can't lose and Fly Careful... then Burn Jita II becomes just another headline to draw more players. As far as their Politics? That's just politics in general. "This too shall pass."

    Great thought provoking read as always Mabrick. Hope to bump into you one day! Fly Careful good sir!

    1. see the point is you still got up and mined that day and if someone was gonna gank you they would have high chances of succeeding regardless of if you were doing what you were "supposed" to be doing. What i would like to know is why go after us haulers, there are plenty of miners and mission runners who dont "participate" in the game in much the same way that us haulers do not? is it because our ships are more shiny? i really dont are one way or the other, i hauled during burn jita and will continue to do what i do. my point is if im losing 1.5 bil cause of this little fun time why not go after some of the other care bears as well, specially the corp miners who constantly claim they are doing what they are supposed to be doing by not afking, show them it doesn't matter and blow their retrievers up as well, make sure they can "afford to fly it", make them puke off of the hypocrisy that spews from their mouths.

  9. I do not know if OP has engaged in the mind-numbing hell that is Sov War, and I'm just an anonymous lowsec pirate, but seems to me Goons would rather be shooting targets that squeal and blog than a bunch of buildings.

  10. To make something happen you need to camp a station for 72h and even then its not guaranteed (SOLAR vs PL).


    This the Mittani role model. Not a warrior, not a general or dictator. A diplomat master spy.

    This is the man who mostly rebuild Europe after Napoleon's fall. Not with war and conquest, but with spies, deals and alliances. He play the "big game" where people were pawns and only a few get to sit at the table and have fun.

    It's the same with Goons. They were never warriors, they were a bunch of carebears that kicked out the warriors from Null. They are the new breed of spreadsheet nerds, sitting in Null winning that CCP don't make content for them to play. They are asking for CCP to move industry to Null! There was a time when people would be kicked out of a Null corp for these carebear inclinations.

    Now they have enough Supers that is not possible to touch them anymore, and with no clear path to Null for new people, Empire is the only target left for them.

    The PAX Goon is here to stay as long the Mittani is on the realm.

  12. A long time ago goons stand against a known enemy. Well organized and dominant the Band of Brothers (BoB) was the evil. What is the difference between goons and the former bob now?
    they hold lots of space and protect there space riches of moon goo and peaceful carebear areas by simply avoiding fight through superior power.

    Sure they do a great job in getting rich but breaking it down to risk versus reward the goonswarm has a far lower risk factor and a insanely huge reward value compared to the hated high sec carebear. so if the carebear is defined by avoiding risk the goonswarm would be the creates carebear of all.

    Maybe they will teach the universe that they aren't afraid of the risk by going to full war against the rest of the universe (aka HBC, N3).

  13. Goons fancy themselves to be a counter-culture, who revel in their non-conformity. That's really code for "I have had sand kicked in my face my whole life and I have found people with similar experiences to hang around with while I eat the shit sandwich life has given me and say it tastes good".

    So what do guys do that are different and have been punished for it socially? They turn around and do it back to whomever they consider weaker than they are. Sad fact of life is that the oppressed usually turn into oppressors if given the chance.

    That's why they wont fight people of equal strength and instead gang up and pick on those who are different and don't conform.

    Having met many Goons IRL you can absolutely tell that they have had it rough. My hope is that one day an industrious former jock will invent the "cyberwedgie" and that will set things right on the internet. :)

  14. @Von... As Mab's corpmate I can appreciate your comment's last sentiment, but... nowadays the chances are that if you do 'bump into Mab' you will be webbed, scrammed, neuted out and possibly inna Dictor bubble and going into hull before you realize he is out there in that fleet that just decloaked on you...

    Unless you catch him on a hauler run in Empire and then you won't 'see' his ship, just his name pass by in 'local'... =]

  15. Good post but I think that you are over-complicating the Goons. They may have been different way back when but from what I've seen it's a safe-haven for bullies. Nothing more grandiose and no real "deep, 3-dimensional chess" metagame. They want to destroy other people, can't get away with it in reality, and so do it with pixels over the internet. Think of them that way and they become simultaneously more pathetic and less interesting.

    Analogies are always dangerous but before trying to find a Sarajevo-moment to push the Grand Alliances into open conflict remember that things in Europe quickly returned to stalemate after two bloody eruptions. What I, personally, think would help Eve is a space "beyond the line" where no one could establish Sov. Seed it with the most valuable resources, restrict the ability to move large ships in, and watch things explode. The key is to make it difficult and expensive to maintain any significant level of control. Think of the romantic view of the early Caribbean as a model.

    And fix mining. Seriously. Make it a mini-game that requires you to target points on the rock every 5-8 seconds; reward higher yield for better play, and no yield if you just let the lasers hit without targeting. Nothing should be changed until mining is no longer best done AFK.

  16. Why didn't CCP put up a travel advisory banner at login like they did last year? What conspiracy can we weave out of that?

    1. Ha! I thought the same. Was CCP too busy preparing for Fanfest? Perhaps the increased sub numbers have made CCP a little less concerned about high sec losses and unsubs. Just a thought, but surely there was a reason last year's notice and this year's lack of.

  17. Mabrick,

    Goons have never changed from their stated goal, which another commenter noted:

    "Goonswarm is not here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin your game."

    Null sec PvP is broken...not by Goons, but by CCP. Right now null sov wars inevitably turn into structure grinding...which grinds away at the player. Hence the term structure grind. Warping in to an IHub and shooting it for 30-40 minutes and being periodically reminded to cycle your guns is hugely boring. Especially when you realize you have 5 more to do. That is 2-3 hours of shooting an immobile target that wont shoot back. That is not 1337 peeveepee either.

    Did Goonswarm put these mechanics in place? No. Who did? CCP. Are there posts on by Goons about how null sec is broken? Yes. And who was CSM Chair when Crucible was released? The Mittani. Was some of that content due to his work on the CSM? Quite possibly. So to say that The Mittani is responsible for a broken null sec is just...a huge indicator you are ranting due to emotion than using logic.

    And I don't think you really get this game either. It is an MMO, but not like most others. It is a sandbox. That means that anything goes so long as it does not violate the EULA/ToS. Burn Jita violated neither, and as such is totally legitimate game play. That you don't like is really neither here nor there. After all I despise missions. They suck beyond belief, in my opinion. But if some guy wants to run them all day, day-after-day, then that is his business. And this is Eve...a cold, harsh cruel universe (i.e. game) and you are never really safe (except when docked).

    1. LOL That's rich!! Some l33t Goon Ganker telling Mab the C6 wormhole dweller that HE doesn't 'get' EvE or think it's a sandbox...

      He lives in THE deadliest space in EvE bro... you're stuck in the Big Blue Cockring and are so strangled by it that you have to come up to hisec from your oh so 'safe' nullfun deserts to fight... uh, sorry, I mean to 'gank' defenseless Freighters and Industrials in Jita like you're actually 'doing' something that anyone cares about... other than the poor fools you gank...

      And THAT shit aint l33t peeveepee either... is it? LOL

      We aint crying, whining or raging... we're all ROFL over Goons. It's so sad, Mittens did some good stuff, but then he blew his load on live TV bro, and now him and His Minions have made Nullsuc so boringly safe that he can't find anything fun for ya'll to DO in all those thousands of empty systems... so sad. =]

    2. i love it when people post that eve is a sandbox, wtf does that even mean? and then those people wonder why i dont interact with them and cry that i have to becasue its an mmo. yeah i complaign when burn jita happens and yes i detest the individuals who participate in the event, its simple economics, and yes i afk and want to see greater profits from afking. okay so we all think the other is a freaking idiot thats fine and we can now move on to more pressing isssues. i like space adn space ships lets focus on improving that. i would like to see the universe increase in size, industry become more complex where a hauler can be better entertained by profits and intricacies of hauling. lets stop bickering about who is afking and making isk and how things are broken, they are not i think eve has a good thing going and i love it. i think it needs to grow now, lets spread things out a little break up industry a little and in general focus on the growing of the eve universe. frankly i think eve is out growing its universe in more several ways. there are alot of ships but we can have more. there is alot to do but we can have more adn finaly there are alot of places to go but we can have more. think, why does this huge jita center of the universe have to be it? one waring force shouldnt be able to take down the center of the known universe!


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