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Friday, January 4, 2013

A Grunts View of the TEST vs FA Squabble

I've mentioned before I have a friend in FA. I asked him what he thought of EN24's article about the TEST and FA falling out - if that term even applies. He sent me a rather lengthy reply. It's nothing earth shattering, just a grunts perspective of the situation  However, my friend makes some interesting points. Here's his reply to me in full for your consideration.
"The Mittani posted a note where he quoted some things Mitrolio(?), the TEST leader said concerning CFC and FA. Our response was well-written, well thought out, and displayed a great deal of diplomacy and diplomatic restraint. Their respone to that was to accuse us in return of breaking and pushing all the "rules" by which we co-exist with them. That's like no Cloaky camping, no pos shooting, no iHub take down  no Sov challenges, etc. Yet to my knowledge, we have done none of these things to them. I know for a fact that they routinely cloaky camp our ratting and mining systems, and even went so far as to set up a POS in the new system in Pure Blind where FA just moved its HQ. I cannot remember a day in the last month or two that TEST pilots have not cruised through Fade and Pure Blind looking for easy kills. We've killed a bunch of them. That however, is legal. It seems that TEST is either blue to CFC or neutral, but is blue to some alliances within the CFC. We are currently not one of them, although we have been in the past, like when we helped them take control of Delve recently. They are neutral to us, although I don't know if they call us neutral, orange, or red.

Unfortunately, it seems that TEST is trying to single us out - in light of the TEST web / forum postings and their constant raids / camping / etc. it seems they are trying to put pressure on us in the hopes that we will start a war. I think it was The Mittani who commented that TEST is something like 5 times the size of FA, so it seems a little ridiculous. Potentially they are trying to get alliances to break away from CFC - I don't know. I think they believe that if they provoke us into as they put it our usual gunboat diplomacy, and we break the agreements and start a war, that the rest of the CFC will sit by and watch it happen without interfering. Seems like a vacuous assumption to me. By the way, the last few GSF fleets in which I have participated had more FA pilots in them than from any other alliance in CFC, so I don't think our participation is overlooked or discounted by the CFC.

I don't think we intend to escalate anything - keeping our cool seems to be the order of the day. However, as Zagdul seems to do often, I think he has already become bored with actually living in and protecting our SOV and simply enjoying the game. We got a warning order that a deployment of some kind is looming on the Horizon - don't know where or when. Given what little I know of politics at that level, I suspect we won't do anything without tacit backing or even active support of the CFC.

So, after all that, I have no clue if we'll wind up in a war or not. For me, I am still trying to get skills in place so I can even fly the ships in our new "armor" doctrine fleets. I have "Armor Tank Elite" skills and can't even use them, as all the DPS ships are Amarr and Laser shit. I can fly everything but those, so I'm training like mad right now. Even the smaller ships are ones that I don't have and have never flown, although I can, so I am starting at scratch and need to build an entirely new set of ships for fleets, along with learning how to fly and fight them. They also changed rules on the Ship Replacement Fund so now if we aren't using T2 guns, we dont get reimbursed for a loss. I'm not sure they understand how many pilots this affects, and the impact it will have in the case of a shooting war or deployment. It would be sad to find that we can only field fleets of cruisers and below with a few battleships mixed in on a deployment because people won't fly ships that won't be reimbursed. Sigh. Just my usual rant at the utter chaos the FA leadership seems to thrive upon. I personally don't get it. Maybe I just don't have the knowledge to understand the bigger picture. Something was said about the old fleet doctrines no longer being effective with the updates and upgrades in EVE, and the new tactics employed by enemies to counter the strengths of those fleets. Over my head - I just want to mine and manufacture and run anoms and occasionally join a fleet to kill things.

I think if a war occurs, TEST will likely be surprised. I think FA alone can field a tremendous force, and being outnumbered is not really a new concept for us. I hope that the CFC would respond as well if that happens, in which case I really think TEST would go down just like -A- (Triple A), Raiden, and NC(dot)."
I won't even pretend I'm qualified to analyse the implications of what he's said, let alone what's between the lines. I'll leave that to the more null-sec knowledgeable pilots leaving comments below.

There is one thing I'd would like to point out though. Poetic Stanziel already weighed in on the inevitability of a clash between HBC and the CFC. I agree with him. It's an inevitable conclusion and surprise should not be the response to such rumors. So the real question comes down to this. Why would they fight rather than enjoy what they have so far divided up between them? I suspect the answer to that question may be far more surprising - and interesting. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

Fly Careful

11 comments:

  1. Reddit vs. Something Awful. Sperg vs. Sperg. New internet vs. Old Internet.

    It'll be a clash between similar communities, but different enough that the old "who's better" argument becomes prevalent.

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    1. That's an interesting view of it. If I read you right, this ruckus transcends EVE Online. It is a manifestation of the larger Internet community. Fascinating...

      Now for your homework assignment. Elaborate and post on your blog. *grin*

      Delete
  2. Conflict between HBC and CFC? Since when did the situation where a fresh new Empire locks horns with an established empire over conflicting interests in a balkanised region looked over by another old empire ever lead to war? Oh. Right.

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    1. LOL - thanks for putting it into a historical perspective.

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  3. Assuming the rest of CFC don't throw FA under the bus as a sacrifice to HBC, then an all out conflict might be in the brewing. Then again, this all might be smoke and mirrors before a CFC/HBC carve up of SOLAR and friends space.

    Why might they fight? Well, got to give those scrubs something to do other than gank freighters or bump miners :-P

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    1. "Assuming the rest of CFC don't throw FA under the bus." I think you just hit my friends between the lines fear.

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  4. It's obvious, Mab. Nullsec is the home of the PvPer and without fights, null = boring. Two entities this large simply cannot coexist once all meaningful opposition has been removed, as it has now. The Drone Fleet Coalition is the only remaining non-CFC, non-HBC group left and is not a real threat. To steal a line from one of the greatest WWI documentaries out there, A World at War, magnetism, it seems, must inevitably draw HBC and CFC into conflict.

    Unless it's all an elaborate ruse. Possible, but I doubt it.

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    1. Thanks for the WWI documentary quote. That's a stroll down memory lane! But, on you what you typed. "Nullsec is the home of the PvPer." My friend would disagree. He says, "I just want to mine and manufacture and run anoms and occasionally join a fleet to kill things." That doesn't seem like a die hard PvPer to me. Then there is the expose EN24 did on TEST botting, and the limits on PvP I mentioned in my Monday post. I'm not saying there are not PvPers in null-sec. There are PvPers everywhere, just like there are carebears everywhere. However, I see null as much more the home of politicians and spies. That's the place where they thrive best. The PvPer does not actually thrive best in null. So no, I don't think it is so obvious.

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    2. I think you are spot-on Mabrick. Look at how many actual die-hard classical sphip-versus-ship PvPers really are in nullsec. Recently there was a heated debate about statistics, but the outcome seems to be that the real hardcore ones are in lowsec and wormhole space.

      Nullsec has become a territory for large-scale community builders. That means a massive infrastructure based on scores and scores of people just generating tax income and doing the maintenance jobs.

      Saying nullsec is the home of the PVPer is like saying the USA is the most warlike nation just because they have the largest military budget and the largest army in the world while completely ignoring that the majority of US citizens just live in peaceful suburban homes.

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  5. " I think FA alone can field a tremendous force, and being outnumbered is not really a new concept for us. I hope that the CFC would respond as well if that happens, in which case I really think TEST would go down just like -A- (Triple A), Raiden, and NC(dot)."

    "Being outnumbered" was "not really a new concept" for -A- either, in fact they prided themselves on it. In the end they still lost pretty much everything, though.

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  6. Like FA my own alliance FCON is part of the CFC and the HBC was neutral to us. But, as your FA friend said, without the Cloaky camping, pos shooting, iHub take down, Sov challenges, gate camping, etc. Basically roams only.
    Last week this changed and we were told we were allowed to harass them by putting cloaked ships in their space. I assume we can also shoot them but I am not sure about that.

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Be civil, be responsible and most of all be kind. I will not tolerate poor form. There will be no James Hooks here. We are all better than that.