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Monday, October 22, 2012

Have you ever Wondered how Lucrative a Class 3 Wormhole Is?

I moved into HBHI's wormhole two months ago. It seems like it was yesterday. Not a day's gone by that I've not taken care of business - whether that was scanning down the day's static connection to low-sec, managing my Nanite Repair Paste production system, mining or running Sleeper anomalies. It's been a very busy two months indeed. So the key question is this: how does it compare to running business in high-sec? And perhaps more pertinent to your intrests, what could you expect to make inside a Class 3 wormhole?

When I ran Mabrick's Mining and Manufacturing [MABMM,] I made a decent amount of ISK. Before the tax changes to PI, I could make a half billion ISK a quarter if I really ground it out and had no unforeseen overhead. In terms of what some industrialists make, it's not all that much. For a single person corporation with other responsibilities, I was satisfied with it. Here is the last quarterly financial report I gave for MABMM. After this, the PI tax rate increase kicked in and profits went down considerably.

So what does the same report look like for the last two months in a Class 3 wormhole? Well, that's a bit harder to put a figure on. For one thing, my new corporate tax structure is completely different. HBHI has a 25% tax rate but it is not based on bounties. There are no bounties for Sleepers. HBHI's tax setting is irrelevant. In fact, for a wormhole corporation the tax mechanism is pretty well totally broken.

How the corporation deals with this is mostly on the honor system and totally manual. HBHI keeps 25% of the value of Sleeper loot and salvage as reported by Aura. We have a formated email report we send to the CEO on how much loot we got and what the breakouts should be (25% to corp, divide the remainder amongst the participants.) It totals all sites run during that operation. He verifies the value of the loot placed in the POS and then pays each participant their share from the corporate wallet. Members get "paid" very quickly. However, the corporation doesn't realize a profit until the loot is hauled out and sold. HBHI assumes all risk should a gank happen - and it has. The system is not perfect but it works well enough that no one is mad about it.

The issue for me and a cash flow report is those payments are recorded in my journal and not transactions. It's hard to get an actual accounting especially for assets (EDIT 22:13 Eve Time: assets inside a POS hanger do not show up on a character's API pull.) With that in mind, here is the balance sheet for my first two months in the hole based on the journal.
Click to Enlarge
Since I've moved into the wormhole, I've actually spent a lot of ISK. This was mostly on ships. I had to replace the Dominix we lost the night I moved into the hole. I purchased a T2 fit Megathron for Sleeper anomalies because the Domi wasn't up to Class 3 anomalies. I also purchased a Proteus and a Nemesis for wormhole defense. I bought a Drake because I wanted one in the hole. As I have yet to lose any of them, they are still assets but are not reflected as such on the above balance sheet. Only their cost is reflected. Their value should cancel their cost until they are destroyed though. In fact, most of the things I bought I still have (ammo and drones being a major exception) so they are all now assets and should be offset.

So you have a better idea of what those assets are, here is my buy and sell accounting sheet. I have totalled assets manually at the bottom.
Click to Enlarge
I have not included the Mackinaw purchase as that was for the corporation and I was compensated. The bottom line is, I have purchased well over a billion ISK in ship hulls and modules since moving into the wormhole. When you remove those assets from my overall balance sheet, my loss becomes a gain. I have made 786,004,226.18 ISK net profit since I left high-sec. That's not bad.

Fly Careful

[EDIT 21:10 Eve Time: Yes, the images are large and hard to read. Click on one, right click on the pop-out image, select open in new tab and then you can enlarge the image as much as you need.]


  1. huh...

    damn man, and I thought I was anal... =]

    1. Yeah, and I just updated the first sheet because the AINeumann deposited ISK was the reimbursement for the Mackinaw and should not have been under Sleeper loot. *rolls eyes at self*

  2. On another note, you guys are in a pretty terrible wormhole. Ideally, you want a wormhole with a static to another wormhole, otherwise you can only run the few sites that spawn inside your home.

    1. As I understand it, the price was right but I wasn't in HBHI when the POS went up. But as for site running, we get plenty of connections from other wormholes - at least a couple every day and I've seen as many as five. It gets quite interesting at times. And lastly, HBHI won't be here forever I'm told. They definitely have plans to move deeper; all in good time.

  3. Tahna... Uh what? "...a pretty terrible wormhole." huh? Well, all I can say is that tells me an awful lot about how much you know about W-space.

    If you live in a C1 thru C3 you will almost always have a stat to Empire, though rarely some do have stats to W-space only...
    In C4 thru C6 you will never have a static to Empire space, it will always be to W-space, if you get an Empire hole it will invariably be a K162.

    ALL classes of wormholes can have up to 5 holes spawned at any one time. If you know about the Tao of Holes, you would know that. Hell, I have written that up in several of my posts alone... Most will be K162s to higher class holes and one will be a static to either W-space or Empire usually depending on the class of hole you are in.

    Our stat is a Lowsec and we usually have between 2 to 4 K162s... This is the best of both worlds as we are guaranteed daily access to Empire AND daily access to other raidable holes. PLUS we get a shot at people who live in higher class holes (and who shoot back) as they HAVE to transit our hole to get to Empire... PvP opportunities abound!

    Plus it's pretty obvious you don't have any idea exactly what hole we are in, because if you do then you don't know anything about PI...

    Our C3 has all fuel prods covered (except ice prods of course);
    we can make 8 T2 prods; 8 P4 prods; and 1 misc - Nanite Paste.

    You wanna talk ISK? getting lucky and taking down a guy hauling his corps Sleeper L&S from a C4 or 5 to Empire to sell can be very VERY lucrative!

    1. You live in J103529

      Granted, Staticmapper might be wrong, but it says you only have a lowsec static. This means you can't reliably farm and roll systems for anomalies.

      Here's your PI

    2. I like how you're doing your "I'm a pro" Tur, while not seeming to know that class2 have always both k-space and w-space statics.

  4. I saw up to 7 connections for one hole (Yes, it was like entering a major city at rush hour) :)

    IIRC, the tao of wormhole is saying something like 4 inbounds, 3 outbounds wormholes (or the inverse).

    And like Tahna, C3 static low sec is not the best hole.
    Look for a C2. Yes, you are downgrading, but with a C2, you have 2 static (choose the flavour between HS/C1, HS/C3, HS/C4, LS/C2, 0.0/C5, 0.0/C6).

  5. Hey folks, let's be careful here. I think the term "best wormhole" is not specific nor set in concrete. It is completely relative to the individual making the assertion. Honestly, the best wormhole is the wormhole you call home. After that, there are various pros and cons depending on your personal goals, corporate goals, etc. To say one is better than another is like calling one beautiful lady better than another. In the end, you still wish you could have loved them all. *wink*

  6. Huh... " says you only have a lowsec static. This means you can't reliably farm and roll systems for anomalies."

    May I ask you both, do either of you LIVE full time in ANY wormhole?? If so you would be unable to make the statements you have both made.

    We have "a" static Lowsec and UP TO 5 OTHER HOLES at any given time that we CAN "reliably farm and roll" and we HAVE been for like 2 YEARS now. We lived inna C2 for over a YEAR... I am sorry, but I KNOW exactly what I am taking about from DIRECT long term EXPERIENCE.

    oh... and I really don't care what either of you think is the 'best' hole... but I do sincerely hope you find yours, climb in it, and it closes after you only to spawn in WoW... where you belong. =]

    And yes, mab, I'll stop poking the silly children now... =P

    1. I live in a C5 wormhole with a C2 static, Tur. I've been in wormholes for more than a year.

      I'll make sure to blow up your spaceship next time I see you ^_^

    2. Tahna,
      I must admit to some surprise... Most who make comments like those above are basing them on what they have read, not personal experience. I find your position very interesting...

      If you live in a C5/C2 then you KNOW we can and roll our K162s and 'farm' them 'to a degree'... there are times when we 'roll' down to, or just naturally have, just the stat Lo... on those occasions mining becomes a less risky and and more lucrative occupation, wouldn't you agree?

      I think you can also understand that as a small corp, we prefer a quieter hole than a larger more active corp might want to take on. We sometimes on solo, or just 2 or 3 of us...

      This hole has a very decent spawn rate for internal combat sites, which we can't keep up with anyway (none of us like 'grinding' sites, we want to enjoy it and so we try not to make it like work) and we don't 'always' roll our K162s either. We usually do that if there is a threat and enough of us are on.

      As a small corp, we make more than enough ISK for our needs off of the internal sites and PI, and then some... Please keep in mind the "best" hole is what works 'best' for your corp and playstyle/OL time & TZ wouldn't you agree? This C3 is currently quite suitable for our current needs/playstyle/TZ mix, but might not be a good fit for your corp.

      And yes, C2's do normally have 2 stats... raiden55, we lived in one w/ 2 stats for almost a year, and yes, after almost 2 years in holes, I do consider myself a bit of a 'pro' as long term experience and knowledge at anything is what makes one a 'professional', but as with all things in life, (RL or VR) a professional knows he still has much more to learn and I like that.

      But, in the C2 we were getting very complacent, we had reached a point where there was no 'challenge' anymore. We shared the C2 with an Alliance corp and so we did do more raiding then as we had more people consistently clearing out the internal sites. We could all solo any site and not only solo them, but solo them often AFS (away from screen) while we watched Firefly or blogged or such on a dual monitor or TV... this was not a healthy situation for us individually or as a corp, plus the ISK per site is far better here than in any C2 we ever ran.

      I don't know about your experiences in C2s or C3s but we never ran any site in any C2 that netted us over ISK 100M for just one site. We have had that in here and, far more importantly, the level of challenge, the 'bar' if you will, was sufficiently raised that we all have had to sit up and get involved and up our game a bit... This is far better for us a corp and for each of us personally.

      If/when we get complacent in a C3, we hope to grow enough as a corp to move up to a C4, etc. etc. But only when we are ready for that challenge...

      And please feel free to 'try us out' if you’re ever pop thru, we will gladly take up the challenge and win or lose will send you a GF. Or just say hi, we have been known to be neighborly towards fellow wormholers who are seeking routes to Empire, either way works for us... =]

    3. Tur, you pretty much summed it up. There is no such thing as a 'best' wormhole. It's just whatever fits the needs of the individual. You don't want too many people in a C3 anyway. 3-4 consistent members is way more than enough. Any more than that will severely eat into your ability to make isk while running combat sites.

      Personally, I don't mine in the wormhole because the risk vs. reward is not worth it for me. However, PI, Combat Sites, and Ladar (and you can really only do 2 of those 3 and make good isk) are well worth the time.

  7. Replies
    1. Even the days I limp back to the POS at 50% structure.


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