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Monday, September 17, 2012

If there is no Kill Mail...

Something happened a while back and was something of a milestone for me. I'd been a member of Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. [HBHI] for a couple weeks by that point and was adjusting well to life in a wormhole. I logged in about 18:00 hours Eve Standard Time, which is a bit early for me, but I needed to check on some things. I discovered I was not alone. There were several ships on d-scan. None of my corp mates were logged in. It was not a friendly visit.

I was in a Helios so warped to a point out of d-scan range of any celestial object and launched probes. I relocated to a different safe and ran some quick scans. It took about a minute to locate three Drakes, a Harbinger and a Noctis. Evidently it was a raid.

Tur had explained to me if we let too many anomalies build up in the hole, sooner or later other wormhole denizens or possibly even known spacers would eliminate them for us. Well, it was now sooner. The only thing that remained to be seen was what I'd do about it. They had to have seen my probes out. I doubt I had the element of surprise. But the idea of letting all that potential profit got to others bothered me.

I wanted to look up the corporation the raiders belonged to just for the record. I needed to see some pilot info and to do that I needed to get into line of site with them. I didn't want to just warp into any old anomaly looking for them. I have a healthy respect for C3 Sleepers. I've also read plenty accounts over on Tiger Ears of waiting until the sleepers did their worse to a ship and then pouncing. I really didn't want to get webbed, neuted and pounded by Sleepers just to have the raiders land on top of me. I'd rather it be the other way round.

I recalled probes, warped back to the POS and reshipped into an Arazu with Sisters Combat Probes loaded. I was sure they'd seen me. What did it matter now? But when I was back at safe and scanning again, the raiders seemed blissfully ignorant of my presence. They either didn't know I was around or didn't care. I soon had the Noctis located again and warped to a spot a respectable distance away.

It was being over-watched by two Drakes while it cleaned up some Sleeper wrecks. That was one anomaly's profit gone. I asked Aura to identify the corporation. Aura identified them as Useless Ideas. It had a July founding date. That really doesn't mean anything so I identified the pilots. They were all noobs. The oldest one was less than three months in pod... what the hell?

I soon confirmed their noob status when all but one of the Drakes warped off. The remaining Drake was regenerating shields. His armor had been half removed by Sleepers. I wanted to tell him he was lucky I wasn't in a Proteus but kept my fingers off the comm switch.

I knew these weren't all the ships in the raid and soon identified another group while I watched the Drake recharge shields to about 80% and warp off. I warped to the new group. It was another Drake, a Harbinger and a Cormorant. The battle cruiser pilots were two more noobs. The pilot of the Cormorant had been flying six months. I figured he was a poor man's salvager. I'd brought one to the hole myself. It was also about 30km from the battle cruisers and closer to me than to them. Now that was sloppy.

My Arazu doesn't have a huge alpha but it can pop a Cormorant - I think. It didn't matter. I wanted to let them know the hole was HBHI's and we'd contest their raid. I just needed to stay away from the battle cruisers. I swung around to the flank of the Cormorant. While I was getting there, the Drake warped off. The Harbinger was over 50km away and the Cormorant was just coming into optimal. I dropped cloak and targeted the Destroyer. He was fast enough to warp before I locked - damn cloak delay.

But there was still a Harbinger on the field. I locked her up and hit her with Sensor Dampers. I told Aura to keep her at 50km and launched five Hobgoblin IIs and set them on the Harbinger. At this point I just wanted to see what these noobs would do.

The Harbinger locked me back and opened fire. It was hopelessly out of range. Her Focused Anode Medium Particle Stream Is didn't even register on my shields. Of course, my drones weren't going to dent the Harbinger either. I ascertained that I was faster than the Harbinger by easily kiting it. However, when yet another Drake showed up I recalled my drones and broke contact.

I was out of time so parked the Arazu at a safe and logged off. A few hours later I logged back in and had a quick look around. I wanted to see if the raiders were still there and if they'd left any anomalies. We were only down two anomalies. The raiders were nowhere to be seen. I'd counted at least eight battle cruisers on d-scan and seen five with my own eyes and we were down only two anomalies?

I'd like to think I scared them off. However, the damage I saw on the one Drake, the T1 weapons they were fitted with and the age of the pilots tell a different story logically. I know they'd taken down one anomaly before I scanned down the first group. I don't think they'd gotten through it very quickly. Their DPS just wasn't very high and C3 sleepers are formidable. They probably lost a ship or two in an Outpost Frontier Stronghold or Solar Cell. I know I've hit armor alarm many times in an active tank Megathron in those anomalies since joining HBHI. Those sleepers have some excellent DPS.

Still, there is one thing of which I'm not sure about this encounter. Perhaps those more versed in the PvP arts can instruct me. Is it still PvP if there is no kill mail and it was a silly engagement to begin with? Thanks in advance for any pointers. FYI, the Arazu was scram, web and MWD fit if that makes any difference.

Fly Careful


  1. Logging off with an aggression timer is not wise. If they were not noobs, you might have logged back in to find yourself in a clone vat in empire.

    1. O.O

      Good point. I'd not even considered that. Thanks!

  2. Of course it is PvP. Going, doing, attempting, failing, fleeing, not dying, living, learning all of it counts. You can also fall back to your earlier roots. PvP is everything. You chased them out of your wormhole and denied them the loot that they wanted. That is also PvP. Defending counts.

    Good job on that.

    You had a scram and a web. At one point you said you were hopelessly out of range. Spend some more time cloaked and getting up to whomever you want to deal with. Get a faction point and web if you must so that you can hold them from further distances maybe pop the one ship and run off. Nothing is wrong with bailing from a fight.

    Or just harass them from to far away to scare them off as you did.

    And as said, if you take aggression make sure you POS up before you log off. That or wait it out cloaked.

    1. Well, the Harbinger was hopelessly out of range... and I intended to keep it that way! *LOL* What I didn't say was my initial targeting on the Cormorant wasn't with blasters but with the scram. You know, click module, F1 to decloak, click on other ship. Hope I did that right.) I just took too long and missed the opportunity.

      Got any advice on avoiding the cloaking delay for target locking?

    2. Max out whatever skills your need to lower the delay. If you are going to be living in WH space your cloak is extremely important.

      It is always point them then shoot them.

      Cloaking V should be on your plan: Skill at using Cloaking devices. 10% reduction in targeting delay after uncloaking per skill level.

      Signature Analysis V: Skill at operating Targeting systems. 5% improved targeting speed per skill level.

  3. others have gone out with more capable fleets than yours that night and probably had the same amount of kills too...and do you think a null sec roam isn't pvp? course it is. so take heart, you were running the equivalent of a level 1 mission against hoomans

  4. Good show. PvP isn't about killmails. Then highsec griefing would be PvP. It is about bringing the fight, risking your ship and pod. Well done, Sir

  5. All is fine, it was a PvP. My suggestion would be for next time - try to get your corpies online and kill them all. Set up some kind of notification system (skype, jabber, twitter etc). Btw you don't need to use probes to find people running anomalies - DScan is your best friend. You reduce your chances to get killmails by 75%, because everyone is dscanning all the time and as soon as they see combat probes (assuming you will be slow to scan) they will run.

    1. I love d-scan but am still learning to use it properly. Currently I am slower with it than I am with probes. However, that will not be the case for much longer. Even in the two weeks plus since this encounter my d-scanning is better. In fact, now the first thing I do no matter what type of space I'm in is hit d-scan. I can't believe I went so long without learning the joys of it.

  6. Yes, like the other posters have said: It's PvP. Also, when you're solo like that and you don't want to risk the T3, then use a bomber. No targeting delay after de-cloak, small signature radius, and battleship dps, at 60+km will make people think twice when they raid your C3. Also, if you time it right, the bomb launch + torps in the first volley, might be enough to pop a ship or two as they are engaged with the sleepers. Solar Cell is a good example, as there are two sleeper battleships in the last wave, as well as Outpost Frontier Stronghold.

    Good job on defending your space.

  7. You did just as we have in the past...

    (1) did your best to gather intel;
    (2) based on that you made a tactical decision;
    (3) then carried it out as best you could;

    No corp could ask for more. Kudos and I raise a glass to you sir.
    My wife's email tag line actualy says it best;

    "Courage is being scared to death – but saddling up anyway."
    John Wayne

    We so PROUD of our fledgling pew pewer!!! =]

  8. Yeah, it's PvP, but what I need to know is how you could tell the armour/shield levels of the ships without targeting them? I presume you were cloaked, so is there something really obvious that I am missing?

    1. Now miz Penny, you wouldn't want me to give away ALL my secrets would you? *wink*

    2. Damn, how did you know plx always works with a carebear!? I sent you an Eve mail about it. It's really not what you're hoping for though. :/

  9. Screw kill mails. They're just meaningless numbers. Seriously. I have dozens of kill mails to my credit, but I still suck at PvP. I've engaged in many battles that never resulted in kill mails. Doesn't mean I haven't been fighting.

    Being on a kill mail is not an indicator of victory or defeat. The only thing that matters in ship vs ship combat is: did you accomplish your objective, whatever it was (i.e. drive them off, protect someone else, etc), or not.


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