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Monday, July 16, 2012

Is Goonswarm simply misunderstood?

I've read a few comments posted by Goon sympathizers that object to my vilifying Goonswarm. To be sure, comments like this are in the minority but they do exist. Could I be wrong? Could Goonswarm be just a bunch of widely misunderstood capsuleers? Or, are they a bunch of griefers as I've led my readers to believe? Let's try and answer that question shall we.

For those that do not know, Goons recruit on the web site Something Awful. In fact, to become a Goon, they require all perspective members to have an account with this web site for at least three months. They also do their recruiting through Something Awful. Here is their 2012 recruiting post done the end of last year.

Goonwaffe Newbie Drive 2012

They start their plea for bad press with this statement, "Goonswarm was born of grief and shaped for the infliction of misery." That's a really straight forward statement. They grief and inflict misery. The opening paragraph goes on to say how it was done to them, so now they do it back even better. But that's just a bunch of rationalization. They simply reaped what they sowed. They are not the victims here though they'd lead you to believe otherwise.

Is that an objection I can already sense forming? Stop! There is evidence that they have always been griefers and it comes from the most damning source: their own recruitment post.
"That time is past. We have returned to our roots. Take a look at the official Eve Online forums and you will find page after page of threads complaining that we are ruining the game for miners, industrialists, mission-runners and more. Our victims lose scores of hours and tens of thousands of dollars' worth of the tedious, dreary effort they have put themselves through every time we strike, and they simply cannot comprehend why or how it occurred."
In this one paragraph they as much as admit Goonswarm has always been about griefing. There is no other interpretation for "returned to our roots." They are proud of it. The relish the idea that they have irritated other Eve players and cost them "tens of thousands of dollars." This certainly fits the definition. Wikipedia says,
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players."
Need more proof? They sum their efforts using a chart. They call it the "grief index." There is no mistaking what Goonswarm is. In their own words they are about griefing. If they tell you anything else, remind them that they are not recruiting based on those other ideals. They recruit griefers. Their advertisement is quite explicit about that.

Want more evidence? Okay, straight from their recruitment post.
  • "Goonswarm Federation 2012: A Grief Odyssey"
  • "In order to destroyed [sic] the treasured possessions of others, Eve give [sic] you the ability to fly spaceships."
  • "The only way you could get a more immediate and satisfying capability to hurt your opponents in meaningful ways would be if they voluntarily wired electrodes to their scrotums and let you deliver repeated shocks to their testes."
  • "There was no fair fight, because we don't care about fair fights."
  • "Simultaneously, many goons are involved in a highly successful campaign of griefing aimed at choking off the supply of certain vital goods used to fuel the production of many advanced items needed in the game."
So, do you still not believe that Goonswarm is about griefing? Here is another paragraph from their recruitment post.
"You want to kill things and hurt people. Shush... I know you do: it's OK. Things that belong to real people who will usually be very upset, and will very often tell you so. If you are even moderately lucky then occasionally they will be so upset that they tell you that they will hunt you down and kill you, and you will then get them banned for life. Goonswarm is built to help Goons have fun in Eve. Fun just like this."
So what Goonswarm wants to do is make someone so mad that in the heat of emotion they make a DIAF threat just like Helicity Boson. Then they file a petition and get the true victim banned for life. That's "fun just like this." It's more like the ultimate grief.
Considering that all this is in their own words, the only conclusion is that Goonswarm is a bunch of griefers. You are what you recruit. They started as griefers and they continue to be griefers - and they're proud of it.

Fly careful.


  1. Mab, check out Mittens own Ten Ton Hammer posts... The Goons are the bad guys of EVE... they ARE our very own home grown BORG...


    “The experience of a new Goonswarm player is radically different from that of the EVE-born.”
    ”…when they install the game they are an extension of an existing community…”

    “Rather than learning the basics alone in hisec, on their first day newbie goons podjump to deep nullsec. There, they are surrounded by their fellows, ushered into massive alliance warfleets, mentored by veteran players, and showered with ISK and ships.”

    “A community-born player is able to entirely skip the dreaded ‘mining veld in a Bantam’ phase. Instead of a positive kill/death ratio, external communities place a greater value on enthusiasm and a willingness to die for the group.”

    “In practice, this means that Goons... ...can be outright bastards to everyone else in EVE... ...and get away with it. The game’s normal 'culture of honor' doesn’t apply…”


    from The Mittani hisself hisself:

    My post comparing the Goons to the The Borg:

    1. I hear you. Their attitude is pervasive and begins 3 months before they even make that pod jump into deep null. We can't let anyone forget it.

  2. Some people just want to watch the universe burn. It's fun.

  3. Not that Im defending them, but some of your comments have been taken out of context. They dont care about fair fights because of the betrayal that took place during the theiving of said supercaps; which are minor details you left out. Just as one example =)

  4. it is interesting that they so passionately defend themselves which I think comes from three motivations:

    - 1) Pure trolling. It's obviously untrue so when a Goon posts about being misunderstood it will often get an irate reaction. At one point they used to sententiously insist that they couldn't be evil because they are a Christian organisation with Christian values (they certainly weren't), in a parody of politicians.

    -2) They see themselves as nice within their club. New goons get showered with isk, people are helpful and knowledgable and so on. So if you're a goon your experience of goons might be that they're all lovely people because they've always been lovely to you.

    -3) The separation of in game and out of game. I think many Goons, including prominently The Mittani, see themselves as lovely warm friendly people out of game and having a certain idiosyncratic but legitimate playstyle within it. So they object to being called horrible people because of the role they pick in a roleplaying game just as Anthony Hopkins is not a horrible person because he played Hannibal Lector.

    1. Yes, but Anthony Hopkins doesn't play that role on a daily basis with constant "positive reinforcement" for his actions as that character. ;-)
      "Stare long enough into the Abyss, and the Abyss stares into thee," and all that shit. ;-) Just sayin.

    2. You're right, Hong. A case in point is the fiasco at Fanfest where Mittens discovered, much to his surprise, that he wasn't a nice person roleplaying a dick any more.

    3. Goons probably started as a Christian organization but its clear they've strayed from their ideals. I'm not sure if they can be blamed though because a community can only label a group as griefers for so long before they eventually become griefers. Here is proof from 2009 that they did indeed used to be a Christian organization. A lot can change over 3 years.

      "The Mittani: Goonswarm is a Christian organization and we take the accusations of griefing that we have been confronted with over the last week very seriously. We will be praying for BoB and Sir Molle in particular, and will be holding a bake sale after church on Sunday to help him raise funds for his fifth Titan."

    4. They were never a Christian organisation. It was a joke.

  5. Mabrick. I became much of a Goon supporter over the last months,

    so I ask just one question: did the Goons grief YOU? Were you at any moment honestly sad, angry or with feeling of loss because of them? Or were you excited, did they provide content to think and blog about?

    If you are not griefed but provided content, then according to your personal experience they are good people. Think about that.

    1. Already have. You'll see that tomorrow in my next post. Thanks for reading my mind!

    2. Already have. You'll see that tomorrow in my next post. Thanks for reading my mind!

    3. If the Goons have "provided content" in that others are happy and amused to see people quitting the game because of being griefed by Goons, that doesn't mean they aren't griefers, it just means that there are other sociopaths besides just the Goons in Eve.

    4. interesting thesis, Gevlon. I don't agree with your core tenet, but i too can't bring myself to castigate Goons using the logic of Mabrick.

      Mabrik, do you realize your basic points are exactly the ones i use when i have to explain to every n00b i take under my wing what 'low sec' is about?

      Goons can only play using the mechanics of the game...obviously they've exploited loopholes CCP foolishly leave open. If they are griefers by definition they should be risk averse, just like carebears are also risk averse.

      The standards we apply to Goons we must apply to ourselves in order to pass muster.


Be civil, be responsible and most of all be kind. I will not tolerate poor form. There will be no James Hooks here. We are all better than that.

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