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Thursday, December 29, 2011

You are killing the thing you love one noob at a time.

I just read My Loot, Your Tears about a noob gank. At the end the ganker crows, "My new friend rage quits. That is the cherry on top." Cherry on top? You "valiantly" nuked his Domi with a Tengu. What did you expect to happen, the noob say, "please sir, I want some more?"

And people lament over the fact player growth is flat. They all blame CCP for their inept handling of Incarna. They think more Crucibles will solve the problem.

They are wrong.

Play-ability will solve the problem and I mean specifically for noobs. Your play style AKeeFa is part of the problem, not the solution you noodle-brain. EVE will never start growing again so long as new players, barely able to fly the easiest T1 battleship to get into, are squashed by Tengus... TENGUS for cripes sake. Your strategic cruiser cost how much more than everything that noob had? You needed that faction armor repper how badly? Pffft.

There is no amount of EVE improvement that will make a griefed noob want to continue playing a game where s/he are is humiliated at every turn of the ship. When any player can engage a Domi flown by a noob with a Tengu and face no repercussions for such an anti-social act, there's a problem. Then there's the fact the encounter was in a .9 system. What the hell are you hanging around there for AKeeFa? Aren't you supposed to be playing in null with the big boys instead of hanging around .9 systems for "excitement" in the form of griefing players who don't even come close to your SP?

That sort of behavior hurts us all by hindering the revenue stream CCP so badly needs to continue producing Internet space ships. No more Crucibles will come to fruition without money. You are killing the thing you claim to love one noob at a time.

If anyone in the CSM reads this, I'd like you to ask CCP one question. How hard would it be to take the entire insurance payout of a noob's ship from the wallet of a griefer like AKeeFa? The parameters would be simple. The popped player would have to be less than 6 months old. The kill would have to be in high-sec. That's all. If CCP really wanted to make a point though, they could make all noob ships automatically max insured at no cost to the noob. Pop a noob, take an ISK torpedo!

Wouldn't that make the griefers think twice? Then wouldn't the tears flow backwards? And it just might help to save EVE.

Fly careful.


  1. I hear what you are saying, but I'm not sure that is the answer.

    One issue would be people ensuring they empty their wallets before attack noobs. I suppose the given wallet could be put negative.

    But we have to be careful to keep EVE a sandbox too.

    I believe killing and scamming new players in starter systems is illegal. Perhaps new players could be given more warning before they leave these systems?

  2. I tend to doubt that this actually happen enough to affect subscriber numbers in a measurable way.

  3. I don't agree Mabrick. It is part of RL as much as in game, bullies / cowards prey on the young / old and innocent. We do not need to change the game mechanics, the noob who has been ganked has learnt a valuable lesson. He has the ability to dictate the events and hopefully has learnt that a few wrecks are not worth his ship. Having to drop down to lower missions or a bit of industry to make some isk to replace his ship should only harden his resolve and not make him quit. I do not condone griefers, I just merely accept them as being part of the game.

  4. amarrahh,

    I agree with you that it's a part of real life and in New Eden; and neither should change.

    For me the question is at what speed new players of EVE are introduced to the rough-ness that is New Eden.

    Too fast and they leave early, too slow and they don't stay.

    I believe Mabrick is suggesting for many players it is too early.

    And I would tend to agree with him... I'm just not sure what the solution is :)

  5. The problem with griefers like this is they typically have boosting Alts and ECM Alts in system so there really was no chance for the newb against a triple boxing idiot hell bent on just ruining someones day.

    I don't know what the answer here is, I had a phoon jump into a camp in aunenen and after he exploded u noticed he was mining laser fit, I checked the aged of the char and he was very new. I sent him 50m so insurance and the 50m should have made him right. I felt that he may have learned a lesson about lowsec there and had the isk to continue.

    Maybe insurance for new toons needs to be addressed. I know I mostly don't insure ships anymore because it's not worth it to me. But I have ways of making isk that is not available to a new player. I can remember how long it took for me to get into my first bs when I started. But the I also remember someone war decced us right after I got it and I parked it and learned pvp.

    I actually joined up with the hs war deccer after this and they turned out to become SAS. maybe that is a path that new players need steered towards.


  6. @amarrahh

    Idon't know what planet you live on, but griefing like that doesn't exist in real life. There are consequences, ending ultimately in jail time or real death. Along the route could also be a good old fashioned shit kicking. There is no better teacher or behaviour modifier than pain.

    In Eve, there's nothing. The "tough guys", aka sad little epeeners, like to float around in high sec instead of going where they might get a virtual punch in the mouth. In high sec, the advantage is all on the side of the asshole. Broken remote/neutral mechanics, and nothing a high sec player can do against a determined griefer until after they've lost their boat. A simple high sec fix is that unless a white is in a fleet with you, they can't be targetted. Problem solved except for smart bombs, but then, a fix for that is that a smart bomb can't even be loaded in a launcher in high sec. That pretty much sorts out the griefers. Time to go get a life.

    I get the whole sandbox thing. The sandbox is outside the window in the real world - the place where these little epeen griefers are apparently lacking, so they take it out in-game. I don't see how CCP thinks it's smart to use griefers as any kind of marketting tool, unless they want to attract more assholes to their game. Assholes ted to me nomadic gamers and move from game to game, so at best, they'll spike their account numbers with people who lower the game environment. Any person who thinks it might be cool to fly spaceships in a game, and do it for fun, are not going to play Eve, or stick around for long, because it doesn't take anything older than a 6 year old mentality to figure out that being bullied with no repercussions to the bully, is not fun.

  7. @pointy sticks: "Problem solved except for smart bombs, but then, a fix for that is that a smart bomb can't even be loaded in a launcher in high sec." And you call Amarrah an idiot? Do you even have any barest inkling of a clue what you're talking about? Sorry, stupid question, obvious no is obvious, and I guess I'm an idiot too for asking it. Well played, sir.

    What you guys are all missing is the fact that n00b, when confronted with ninja'ing behavior, puffed himself up and said, "I can take this guy," and came out swinging with his "one-two" Dominix. He ENGAGED another player. You guys talk about consequences, and there it was. He made a decision, engaged another player, and got popped.
    He could have VERY EASILY ignored the guy, popped the wrecks, or just left and forgotten about them. I did it plenty of times, and have seen others do it too. Sometimes you even get the griefers pissed if you ignore them and just keep goin on about your day. ;-)

    You guys seem to have completely missed the part about the who shot first... yet I'm sure you'll gladly group me in the "moron" category as well. ;-)

    So, does this mean that I should get my losses reimbursed from when I was a stupid noob wandering thru losec the first few times? And at what point do we "take the training wheels off" and say "this person isn't a n00b anymore"??? Answer me that. FURTHER, I'm sure griefers will figure out a way to exploit the suggested "take from the griefer to give to the n00b" mechanic. Yeah that's what this game REALLY needs: more throw-away alts. *rolling eyes*

    Additionally, riddle me how that new person, who's USED to and ACCUSTOMED to the "reimbursement training wheels" is gonna react when they arbitrarily come off? "Well this isn't fun anymore, fuck this I'm done," *ragequit* <-- something like that I'd take a fair guess.

    Bottom line: either you're suited to be an EVE player, or you're not. Unless they make it WoW in Space, it's never going to have the mass appeal and subscriber base, just not going to happen. Hell, even if it did become a "PvE with some PvP content carebearfest" like WoW, it STILL wouldn't have the same numbers, because there are already space-WoW MMOs out there.

    Also with regards to the "being bullied" and "no repercussions". In lowsec, I can shoot first. If I even get the hint that you may possibly at some time in the distant future even consider fucking with me, we can settle it right then and there. No dicking around with stupid contorted mechanics. I find you or you find me, and we go at it. Simple as that.
    Easiest solution to the bullying problem: join a big low or nullsec alliance. Then you don't have those lil mechanic things letting bullies push you around, and you may in fact find yourself doing some pleasant pushing as well.

    Closing though: risk vs reward. If you want hisec to be 99% safe, you should be willing to take a 99% pay cut there vice low/null. After all, SOMEBODY has to pay for those insta-jumping, insta-locking, insta-popping CONCORD ships, right? I'd assume hisec would be taxed to hell and back to pay for those babies, and would def love to see it happen in-game. ;-)

  8. >Pointy Sticks said...

    > griefing jail time real death shit kicking pain sad little epeeners punch in the mouth asshole griefer griefers go get a life little epeen griefers are apparently lacking take it out in-game assholes Assholes bully

    You're mad, bro. Real mad.

    Also wrong. But that's less funny~

  9. I get the point of your blog-post, but I disagree.
    As I am a noob myself and have started only some months ago I must tell you: it is very easy to "learn" the mechanics of Eve.
    I never understood the complaints about the "learning curve".

    In fact:
    Eve is the MMO every serious gamer will and should eventually come to. Every other game is just plain boring in comparison.
    Every step that is taken to make it more "carefree" is a step to destroy the game. PvP must have consequences, there must be "non-consensual" PvP.
    If someone rage-quits over this, then Eve is not for them and it is a good thing they leave ASAP.

  10. I couldn't agree more with Norbert.

    However I would say that alteration's still can be made to make EVE more neub friendly without reducing it's complexity and non-consensual pvp.

    But most of those are small changes :)

    The bigger changes should be focused on areas of the game that aren't functioning as well as they could and expanding the game into new areas... IMHO.


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